great white Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Looks like we have a weather window on wednesday Is anyone thinking of heading out??? Dan and I are thinking of having a nose around and a Conger session even though the tides are big. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun j. Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Yep !!, I'm out.......but heading East, in search of early plaice! Not confident....but been told they've been catching them in the E.Solent; I hope the odd one is fat enough for the pan! ........but I will be 'conservation-minded'! Alun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Tight lines Alun I may be taking wendy to the Island later in the week so would be interested to know if you get any, I may be able to sneak a couple of Spinning rods onboard LOL Tight lines Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHoy Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 (edited) Well I went out for the afternoon in the hope that the vis and temperature would improve, which it didn't until I got back into the harbour Think fog in the Western Solent according to the VHF chat. I didn't bother wetting a line but did the give the engine some exercise in the calm conditions, then enjoyed a potter round the harbour taking advantage of the extra low water to learn a bit more about the mud/channel layout. Almost had the harbour to myself. I did try on the VHF to raise a couple of club boats that might have been about, but nothing heard. Was it anyone from the club fishing the Swash Channel? A. Edited February 20, 2008 by AHoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun j. Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 It was slow, cool breeze and mostly misty...... with a few tantalising glipses of warm[er] sunshine. Net result...... 4 bites, two plaice.....each just over a lb....and fit enough for tomorrow's supper! Alun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 We went out yesterday at 7 to the wreck by slack water To the wreck and that is where we started to have a bit of anchoring problems, the thing would not grab the seabed. on the third attempt it went in but another increase in breeze kept us just off the wreck, after a quiet flood we reanchored [Or tried too] for the flood this time I allowed for the breeze and guess what the wind dropped to nothing and the tide picked up to put us fishing off the wreck again We moved to another wreck and at last had a few fish, pout lsd whiting as we swang onto the mark and 4 congers, the biggest was about 30lb. In all it was a hard day, the weather was fine but I can not remember ever lifting the anchor so many times, we must have buoyed it up about 10 times Dan and i gaot home knackered and i expect Paul D. was the same Better than work but only just, I will have to work out how much fuel we wasted with all that anchoring Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffa Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Charlie, Hope you don't mind me enquiring about your anchor capabilities. I'm looking to get a replacement for my trusty 4kg folding grapnel and have almost decided on the manufacturer and type, having scoured the internet for tests and prices. What type of anchor are you using? It wouldn't happen to be a Bruce(Claw type) or CQR Plough would it.? and what is chain length and dims- how much rode factor were you anchored on. Do you have a chain and windlass setup or do you have to manually drop and recover? Would you consider changing anchor type after this recent experience? My Chosen design will not only have to be lightweight(manual handling-around 4kg boat is 6m & 1tonne empty) quick setting (within 1 metre) and no dragging under general fishing conditions and tides but also be easy to lift if stuck. It should also be a reasonable price!! Some prices and shipping costs are astronomical!! On the Internet there are some very anti opinions relating to some of the current designs in particular the Bruce style and even the CQR . The anchor tests are biased towards quick setting and zero dragging on sand and mud bottoms and are generally for the slightly larger boats and yachts whilst mooring overnight whereby the last thing you need is a dragging anchor. Anchoring for fishing purposes can be slightly more tolerant but not much.(Assuming you don't knod off on an allnighter!!!) Opinions are Generally that the Bruce type is difficult to set and once set doesn't have much holding power. The CQR is generally better but is still no match for the modern anchor designs and also it can give you a nasty bite with its swivelling stock. I'm thinking of changing to a Manson Supreme Plough style with Roll Bar which seems to be a poor copy of a Rockna but still gives about 80% Rockna performance . It has a UK distributor in Hampshire so I could collect ! Peteg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) Pete, Anchoring is given a very high priority by the RNLI, as this can be the last chance of saving a vessel from being washed onto rocks etc. The folding grapnel is not one of the best designs for general purpose use, and has got limitations, especially at only 4kg. For a 20' boat, the RNLI suggest that you should be considering a main anchor of around 8kg, backed up by a decent length of chain. The anchor weight helps penetration into the sea bed, and the chain helps prevent chafe, and gives a more horizontal pull to aid setting. There's lots of different views about anchor patterns, prices, and techniques, and it is definitely worth chatting with a few other club members. From my personal point of view, any anchor used should be considered as disposable. They do get stuck, even when tripped, and I am prepared to buoy and cut the anchor cable if I can't retrieve. The Bruce "clones" from chandlers are quite cheap, and seem popular with many members, including myself. Any anchor will struggle in change of tide or wind over tide conditions when you need precision anchoring over a small mark or wreck, but if you would like me to perform a SEA Safety Check, we could go over some options and ideas, and maybe I will be able to answer these and other questions for you. Mike Safety Officer Edited February 21, 2008 by Mike Fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Hi Pete, I have no wish to re start the great anchor debate ,but as you asked I was using a 25lb CQR [rigged to trip ]and about 35ft of 10mm chain to a full coil[220m] of 12mm nylon and Alderney ring Yesterday the sea was quite calm but a lot of tide, we were in about 35 metres and had deployed at least 3/4 of the rope so were at about 5:1 Part of the problem was down to the way the trip was set up initially. it was restricting the turn of the blade but was only noticed when the trip was pulled and I had to renew it. It was also a new bag of ties that also seemed to come undone easier than the previous ones so I am now using 4. Another part of the reason was that in the middle of the day we were having to reanchor during a strong run of tide on a muddy bottom and it was hard to give the anchor room to set uptide of the wreck, when it did set we had to pay out even more rope to get close to the wreck and a change of wind and tide easil moved us off target. I am still getting used to the differance this effect has on Alfresco as compared to Great White, so I suppose the real problem was I was having an off day. Lifting a 25lb anchor and chain on and off the boat all day is hard work adding any more weight to this would start to give it a manual handling risk, and adding too much chain also makes recovery even to a large buoy and alderney ring very tireing. My other in use anchor is an 11 kilo Bruce copy run from the bow on a winch, this only has 10 mtrs of 9.5mm chain to 100 mtrs of rope and is only used for shallow water. [i also carry a spare one of these bruces in case I need a kedge] I would not use these small winches on wreck trips as I feel the fast retrieval using an alderney ring system is safer. I am quite happy that my anchors are suitable for the boat, only a few weeks ago I anchored easily when boats all around me struggled to set there anchors. although if yesterday was a regular occurance I would add about 50% more chain. I would never use a folding anchor, and only use a grapnel if it is right on the rocky ledges and I use a home made type with bars that can be just straightened by the boats power to pull the anchor out. I know that there are probably better anchors now but need a balance of setting ability on all the grounds we fish, weight and cost As mike says they are sacrificial Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Hi Pete As Mike and Charlie have said type of anchor comes down to confidence and the seabed you are anchoring on. I would have thought a 7.5kg Bruce type would be sufficent for your craft, I have found with my Bruce look-a-like I have had to sharpen up the blade of the anchor to ensure it cuts into the sea bed. A good length of anchor chain, at least the length of the boat + a bit if possible. I carry as a spre anchor the old fashioned Fisherman's anchor, when deployed I know it will stick in anywhere! (May never get it out in rocky places however) I did make one with a trip facility on it and proved very useful at times. For this type of anchor use 1lb for every foot of boat length as a guide. Good luck on your search Coddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffa Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Guys, Thanks for all the advice- Anchoring and anchor types is one of those subjects that can go on and on and on without a definite single solution. My own little folding grapnel does have 7 metres of 8mm chain on it and 100m rode and sometimes sets so hard I have trouble dislodging it with the Anka Yanka system so have set the tie wrap trip pretty light at 1 heavy duty one so I can guarantee a trip. I am always careful to lock the folding blades before laying it and I must admit I havent really had a problem with it. However My second anchor is a pile of pooh and is a strange form of Danforth/Brittany clone it has much lighter and shorter chain and rode and I was hoping to use it in the Harbour shallows. As Charlie says manhandling an anchor and chain all day is tiring to say the least so I thought this one would be great for quick position changes. How wrong could I be it doesn't seem to have enough weight to set or the blades arent sharp enough to dig in. Anyway I have decided to change the Danforth style to my grapnel as a backup anchor and go for a 7kg Manson Supreme to replace the grapnel. My Only Concern is that I wont be able to trip it easily .Its got a slotted shank which may or may not work as intended. Mike , I'll take you up on your kind offer of a Sea Safety Check one of these days. My Problem is committing to a date .It is definately on my list of things to do but I need to organise a few things first like spare time Watch Peteg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Looking at the Rocna and Manson, I would suggest a few drilled holes to allow you to trip the anchor. I did make contact with the designer of the Rocna a couple of years ago you was just about to sell this anchor into the UK market. I would suggest you make contact with him or look on his website http://www.rocna.com/home.php?region=uk if you have not already and see how they have arranged differant setups. Regards Coddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffa Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Coddy, I spent some time investigating the Rocna range and they have a hole drilled at the rear of the fluke for tripping. The Manson uses the slot in the shank for rock anchoring which provides an auto trip as the shackle slides to the back -.....Theoretically For sand anchoring there is a single slotted hole at the front of the shank and no hole at the rear of the fluke so I may have to drill one. I have heard that Rocna will be producing a slotted shank version soon. I get the impression that there is a degree of bad feeling between Rocna and Manson . My reason for choosing Manson over Rocna is price and hopefully the slotted shank will work. Peteg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 well we were due an anchoring thread as the last long one was over 2 years ago............. worth revisiting as there was a lot of info on it. some great points made here already which are worth dragging out specifically 1. sharpening the leading edge of the claw design and the point of the cqr (and other plough types) is usefull and can provide the edge (sry) in weed over sand/mud for the former and hard sand/sand over clay for the latter. 2. sods law says that any anchor rigged to trip will eventually do so when you don't want it to. personally I will never overnight on a hook rigged to trip in any way at all - if (and when) I loose the lot I will use one of the spares onboard - setting myself up I know! 3. there are some incrediabley efficient new(ish) designs out there, and some relatively poor performing old ones. they all have strengths and weaknesses (when you take into account cost - which you shouldn't but we all do) and some have quirks - I have a 10kg Sword (Spade/Oceane) which the designer gave me to test (against the 10kg Claw and 10kg delta I used). Fantastic holding but had to be set hard where the claw and delta would self set as any load went on - learning curve! 4. there is an alternative to weight - but I wouldn't recomend it as a general anchor. 1.5kg aluminium spade on minimum 6:1 all rope rode will hold like you will not believe in Poole Harbour. 5. few of us should ever get anywhere near the operating limits of our anchoring gear - but we should have the gear that will handle those needs should they arise. 6. Craig (Rocna) is not a fan of Manson.........but they do agree on one thing - the CQR isn't as good as the number sold, installed, in use, suggest....... 7. when recovering from a session on a wreck either (a) wait for the tide to be taking you away from the structure or ( get it up a fair distance very quickly! If anyone want's to borrow either claw's in 7.5 or 10kg, or the 10kg sword, please let me know - the delta is back as my current preference but it does work it's way through gravel banks a bit Personally, like Charlie, I use a relatively heavy section of chain as an important part of my rode (17m of 8mm) which adds 25kg to my 10kg hook. 10m 10mm would do the same (but wouldn't fit my gypsy!). however the elasticity of the nylon is equally important in the overall scheme of anchoring and in shallow water I will always fit a snubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted February 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 I had put it down to a bad day But another skipper reminded me that a lot of shingle dredging has been done in that area recently, so the ground may have been disturbed. The anchor did come up covered in clay We hope to get out on Sunday and will see how it goes then Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 But another skipper reminded me that a lot of shingle dredging has been done in that area recently, so the ground may have been disturbed. Could that be why the fishing was poor as well ? or probably just me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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