Jamie W Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Hi everyone.. Im after some advice on this engine.. Altough its got a very clean hull, And has been serviced recently. Im only achieving 4300rpm at WOT.. Should be 4500rpm.. Is this anything to worry about? It starts and runs fine, never skips a beat.. BUT, i checked the pre-filter (The service engineer didn't)and that had sand and sludge, also some black looking red diesel at the bottom.. So this could of caused issues in the injectors?? Im going to Re-service it myself, Also i dont think the stern gland has had anything done for ages,so hopefully no horrors under there.. I've heard its the same as a perkins / montego 2.0 TD.. also any ideas where i could locally (If poss) source cheaper parts then volvo.. All filters, New oil, And new gearbox oil,coolant.. And if i could use this oil.. http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/...tegoryId_165581 And this for gear oil http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/...tegoryId_165581 Also is halfords coolant ok? Or anyone recommending better parts,id be great-full Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mw Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 If you take your oil details to Q8 oils if your near ferndown indust est they will have oil you want and anti freeze check what you need the oil will need to be for a diesel as it has to keep the acid neutralized fram will make the filters i would think mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Hi Jamie It's based on the Perkins Prima engine. I've got a Handbook if you'd like to borrow it (I might be persuaded to part with it). Edited November 7, 2012 by Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightingale300 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Hi Hyphose on the Nuffield ind est stock a vast amount of marine filters at very good prices, I know because I work there. We supply people like Mike wills Tricket marine Sunseeker Holes bay marine And many more so I'm sure we will have what you need at a good price, even cheaper if you ask for a free fishermans loyalty card as this can get you various discounts upto 40%. Mal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I had the Prima 60 in Great White a good unit that did us well for 15 years. On the Fuel lift pump there is a fine gauze filter under the round cover with a fixing screw in the centre, the slightest build up on this effected the WOT on the 60, but I am not sure if it would be fitted on the turbo version. Easy to take apart and clean, on my old boat a job well worth doing. takes less than 5 minutes. Ref engine RPM, I presume that you have had it up to the stated max revs at some point. If not then it could be down to the prop size. 200 revs would be about 1" of pitch. Possible to have the pitch adjusted but needs to be done by a prop company and a much bigger job. [ Boat out , prop off etc] Ref the parts , get them from a company like New Forest Auto Factor 01202 691111 and they will be a fraction of cost. Perkins use a couple of differant anti freeze mixtures, but they are differant colours so easy to match. A lot of us use Rimula Oils for Marine Diesels, we buy ours at work through specialised oils at ferndown. Hope that helps Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Some good suggestions so far, and I'd also suggest checking the quality of your diesel. The colouration and filter blockage is typical of bugs in the diesel. These feed on the fuel itself, and if you've got a significant quantity of biofuel, or moisture in there, the chances increase. They can be a pain to eradicate, and even a small amount left from emptying and cleaning will breed and contaminate the next batch of fuel. You can buy additives to kill them, but you might need to check or change your primary filter fairly often over the next few dozen engine hours, as the dead bacteria can turn to sludge and could block the filter. I'd also run with a couple of spare primary filters (secondaries too), and practice changing them and bleeding the system, in case you ever get a stoppage at sea. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie W Posted November 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the replies lads.. @brian I shall be in touch, although the roadworks makes you a plane ride away now lol... @mal will pop in ;-) @charlie.. Can you see that part in the pics? I will hunt for it ;-) .. The prop came married to the boat, is in as new condition from what I saw.. Boat did used to get there, and all specs point to 22knots @ 4500.. Well 20 is my max :-( Is the fuel lift pump the little button I pressed to prime/bleed air out of the engine? @mike that's what I was thinking.. Gna filter the diesel more now.. I have got some additive ready to treat the engine with.. And I'm gonna change filters etc.plus do it regularly (hence seeing if I can source cheaper) P.s. shall I add the treatment before I change the fuel filter or after? Wasn't cheap stuff lol.. Also any idea how I service this gland? Sorry for all the questions :-( Edited November 7, 2012 by Jw2000uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Have you emptied the boat of all the weight so that she is really empty? Then tried for WOT on your own? I expect that is when the 22knts was proven by the manufacturer. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie W Posted November 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Have you emptied the boat of all the weight so that she is really empty? Then tried for WOT on your own? I expect that is when the 22knts was proven by the manufacturer. Rob Will try that rob also. Although apart from 4 rods, toolbox, and a toolbox with fishing gear in, thts about it :-/ Would that stop it hitting max revs? Or just slow it down? Cheers ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedger Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Long shot. Is the after cooler cooling properly, is the core clean on both air and water side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Sorry but that is totally differant to my 60 so it may just be fitted with the pre filter. Only a couple of knots and 200 revs could easily be loading of additional gear, a bit of slime on the hull etc Is there any differance to the engine revs when you take load off by running with the tide as opposed to into it? Although as others have said it would be well worth keeping an eye on your fuel filters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie W Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 @ wedger where would i look to find this? Novice... The temp is in range if thts what u mean?? @charlie even with a 3 knot current with, it wont go over 4300.. Against its the same 4300 :-/ Checked the main filter today, didnt look to bad, only 4 months old tbh.. Drained and topped up. But still 4300.. One thing i have found is coolent is disapeering.. BUT would topping it up with the wrong coulor do this? Im going to be servicing it all next week.. And drain/flush the coolant... Hopefully not a head gasket or summit :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedger Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 The aftercooler is after the turbo - in front of the inlet manifold. ( mechanic serviceable part I would suggest). One thing i have found is coolent is disapeering.. BUT would topping it up with the wrong coulor do this? I have heard that the Volvo 31's and 41's tend to blow out surplus coolant readily if even slightly over filled. Can you see any sign of this happening to your 22? you could check by taping a poly bag (securely) over the overflow pipe and running up. I would also be inspecting the engine thoroughly for signs of leakage to eliminate that it is not being ingested into the engine. Check for condensation / emulsion on the oil filler cap and inside the rocker cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Does it rev to WOT out of gear??? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Does it rev to WOT out of gear??? Rob Ouch!!! Would not suggest trying this option personaly Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Does it rev to WOT out of gear??? Rob Ouch!!! Would not suggest trying this option personaly Dave Dave, why wouldn't you rev an engine not in gear? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedger Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Does it rev to WOT out of gear??? Rob Ouch!!! Would not suggest trying this option personaly Dave Dave, why wouldn't you rev an engine not in gear? Rob Yest................... Dave, why not? My thoughts too Rob. Whilst one would clearly not run any engine for long periods at WOT unnecessarily, - and without being loaded particularly, I would consider WOT testing essential, as part of the diagnosis and process of elimination. I would also, suggest that most subtle fuel flow, air flow and air to fuel line leak problems do not displayed well, until under load and demanding higher/highest power output / fuel air use. (been there). Trev Edited November 11, 2012 by Wedger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) A long time ago I was taught you should never run an engine, petrol or diesel WOT without a load on it. A quick rev is ok but a sustained flat-out rev does not prove much in my opinion. Yes the engine might get to the revs but that does not mean it will rev the same when loaded. Injectors/carbs will not pass the same amount of fuel/air, the fuel pump is not passing the same amount of fuel, a turbo, if fitted, will not be pulling the right sort of vacuum again un-loaded. A lot depends on the design of the engine/electronics if any fitted. Running on the limiter is putting undue strain on many mechanical components within the engine. I do stress this is sustained running not just a quick rev of the engine, which as I have already mentioned does not prove anything except it can reach a certain rev range. Do not compare modern race engines against outboards and diesels, the build quality and specifications/tolerances are miles apart and design of the engine and components are completely different. As I say this is just my personal thoughts and opinion and I don't expect anyone to take any notice, however I would never by a boat, outboard or car where I know the owner revs the guts out of an engine like a boy racer! I know Nigel is more of an authority about engines than I so if he would like to add his thoughts I might be persuaded to have a change of thoughts. Dave Edited November 11, 2012 by Coddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedger Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Not suggesting any sustained running WOT with no load, but just a run up and off when achieved. This would eliminate sticky throttle or some sort of mechanical setting / failure in the throttle system. Would not tell you something about every type of engine, but this was started re TAMD Volvo Penta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie W Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Cheers for the replies, Will check the overflow for coolant loss, although for a year it was filled to the rim.. But only just started loosing a pint a trip.. Will research about after cooler. I did think of running it a WOT out of gear, but had the same reservations as dave..but then I wouldn't know the pros and cons.. But would be willing to quickly try, the throttle it defo getting its full distance, as it's hitting the limiter on the Bosch v fuel pump... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Jamie Here's the Fault Diagnosis taken from the Perkins Prima manual (the base engine for your TAMD22). Page 1, Symptoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Pages 2 Fault Diagnosis Edited November 12, 2012 by Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Pages 3 Fault Diagnosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niggle Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 With such a small loss of revs it is going to be a nightmare to find,could be a whole load of different elements which is causing it.i also don't like long periods at full throttle especially well over 4k on a diesel .i would of thought 3k to 3.250 would be better and more economical. The loss of coolant would be my number one priority. As to taking to max revs stationary a blip is ok but in this case I believe it to be an under load problem Find where you are loosing coolant first Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie W Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Thanks Brian, will print that off... @nige wasn't massively concerned, just more curious to why the revs r down, only ever run flat out for 2 mins. Clear the injectors etc... But because the performance isn't 100% at 3500 I'm 2-3 knots down also.. So tend to now run at 3900 :-/ Yeah the coolent and service is this weeks priority.. I've tightened all drain plugs.. So after testing it may proove to be that.. But will report back.. With the gland, to I just push the proper grease in where the shaft enters?? Doesn't look like a official vovlo gland.. Regarding a clean hull etc, regularly beach it, and clean.. But will defo try again ;-), as stated it could simply be this.. Fingers crossed.. Edited November 12, 2012 by Jw2000uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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