Fishing wars?

[Stuie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55283489

[2006holmwood]

So are we going to be in same situation as before we joined,

Seemed to work then.

[Kingfisher 126]

 

This little baby was fishing south of here last week on its way back from the South West. A little issue of getting the licences back off them might be a deal breaker. Greedy fishermen selling their quotas to them over the years , so it looks like they may still keep them!! 🤷🤷

[2006holmwood]

Bu%%er

[plaicemat]

I assume their quotas are all authorized by the EU which will no longer pertain after December 31st. Presumably, all quotas will have to be renegotiated.

 

Terry.

[Newboy]

58 minutes ago, plaicemat said:

I assume their quotas are all authorized by the EU which will no longer pertain after December 31st. Presumably, all quotas will have to be renegotiated.

 

Terry.

Whatever quota it will be, if the boat is British registered, it will have the rights to land fish. Unless the government can make catches made in UK waters can only be landed in the UK.

[Rob]

If Boris strikes a deal, he will fold and give away UK quota again!

[Ohgreatone]

No deal = no quota presumably

100% uk

[plaicemat]

1 hour ago, Ohgreatone said:

No deal = no quota presumably

100% uk

 

You'd like to think so.

 

Terry.

[Death Trap II]

If we dont have a deal in place, the common fisheries policy (with quotas) can end too and the UK can determine who can fish in our territorial waters. 

 

But the problem is that a lot of the british owned quotas we sold in the 1980's (after north sea cod was declared economically extinct) to European based companies (that is why 85% of the channel cod quota is landed in france), and essentially the UK government would be seizing a legitimately owned asset by a foreign entity. Doesn't exactly make for a constructive environment.

 

That boat mentioned above in the BBC story is UK flagged, but the quota is owned by a Dutch company. SO it would be able to remain fishing in UK waters, but would have to land its catch in the UK.

 

However, in retaliation for the seizure of legitimate fishing rights, in retaliation, the EU will block the UK companies from selling fish landed in the UK to the EU (with high tariffs).  And of course, UK flagged boats are blocked from fishing in the waters of EU states, where we do most of our fishing.

 

The UK position is untenable. But the fishing is just a red herring by the UK government. They though it is such an economically insignificant industry, that the EU would let them have a win. But they wont. 

If the UK government was serious about this, they would have offered to buy back the quotas, and work in the way the Norwegians do, but they didnt, they just used it as an emotive issue to whip up public anger.

 

If there is a deal, there is likley to be little change in the fishing industry, and if there is no deal, the fishing industry will be decimated as it will be no longer economically viable. 

 

Rock and a hard place

[Newboy]

3 hours ago, Death Trap II said:

If we dont have a deal in place, the common fisheries policy (with quotas) can end too and the UK can determine who can fish in our territorial waters. 

 

But the problem is that a lot of the british owned quotas we sold in the 1980's (after north sea cod was declared economically extinct) to European based companies (that is why 85% of the channel cod quota is landed in france), and essentially the UK government would be seizing a legitimately owned asset by a foreign entity. Doesn't exactly make for a constructive environment.

 

That boat mentioned above in the BBC story is UK flagged, but the quota is owned by a Dutch company. SO it would be able to remain fishing in UK waters, but would have to land its catch in the UK.

 

However, in retaliation for the seizure of legitimate fishing rights, in retaliation, the EU will block the UK companies from selling fish landed in the UK to the EU (with high tariffs).  And of course, UK flagged boats are blocked from fishing in the waters of EU states, where we do most of our fishing.

 

The UK position is untenable. But the fishing is just a red herring by the UK government. They though it is such an economically insignificant industry, that the EU would let them have a win. But they wont. 

If the UK government was serious about this, they would have offered to buy back the quotas, and work in the way the Norwegians do, but they didnt, they just used it as an emotive issue to whip up public anger.

 

If there is a deal, there is likley to be little change in the fishing industry, and if there is no deal, the fishing industry will be decimated as it will be no longer economically viable. 

 

Rock and a hard place

I don't see how it's seizing their property. If the boat is UK registered it surely can still catch fish after the 1st of January, only it can only land fish in the UK (if that's how it works), they still catch x amount of fish, only difference is it can only be sold in a UK fish auction market before it can be exported. 

Yes, they will put punitive tariff on seafood, but end of day it's about economic numbers, if import seafood becomes expensive, i can't see EU caught seafood being sold at the "same" price as they are now, it's human nature to be greedy, so ppl will up their prices just below the UK prices, that's if those types of seafood are as readily available in the EU shores as they are in the UK shores.

For those types there are only small fishery in the EU, their only choices are either go without or put up with the higher price.

With the smaller uk market seafood might be become cheaper as less competition for them with the smaller fishing fleet that we have or/and less demand on the fishery and gives them a better chance to recover.

Might not be a bad thing in he shorter terms, unless you are a fisherman.

[Death Trap II]

they bought a quota, which was a right to catch a given weight of fish in certain locations, an income producing asset. It is not property as such, but an asset yes. And by the way, the UK was the only country in the EU that allowed quotas to be sold outside of their own country. 

 

But in regard to the boats, it is a lose lose. They can either stay flagged as a UK vessel, keep catching in UK waters but face lower margins (because they have to pay traiffs), or reflag, lose the right to fish in the UK waters (but retain right to fish in other European waters), land catch outside UK, and maintain margins (but this destroys UK shore processing and maintenance jobs).

 

i think 75% of the fish landed in the UK is sold into Europe, because they value it more than we do, and that is the most profitable market. People in the UK just dont want to eat herring and mackerel. And i think the proportion of fresh shellfish exported is even higher. But that market has already been destroyed by the introduction of customs checks, unless they can find a way to get it through without being held up.  

 

But also, lets be clear, these are not issues affecting small boats, these are quotas owned by the worlds wealthiest families. If the UK quotas are taken back, i am 99% certain about what will happen to them. They will be handed back to those that sold them off in the 80's, and overfishing will run rampant again.

[iansimpson63]

The stated Government position is to increase the quota share for UK vessels while recognising the “need to do that over time”. The Fisheries White Paper made clear there was “no intention to change the method for allocating existing quota”. Instead, the Government would start a dialogue on how to allocate any additional quota resulting from Brexit.

 

Those members that sold their quotas to EU boats and those that had their boats destroyed, will have to make a decision whether to rejoin the fishing trade and there is ongoing dialogue with stakeholders. A real issue that I see and discuss with friends from Looe, is that it is incredibly hard to get young brits to start a career on the trawlers.

 

The hopeful outcome is that the UK Government will control UK waters and have complete control of the quotas (other than the agreed quotas with neighbouring nations on shared fish stocks under international law). It may well be that the overall quotas are lowered leading to regeneration of stock over time and/or some quota are put out to tender that EU vessls can bid for.

 

Unless you are sat in on the negotiations or have a friend who is, you can only rely on government briefings, speculate or rely on the media who are also speculating.

 

Finally, perhaps the raft of cooking shows and celebrity chefs should have a concerted effort to get the UK to eat more fish and shellfish. 

 

Merry Christmas all.

 

[Death Trap II]

If the UK government does take back full control of fishing in UK territorial waters, i wouldnt count on them lowering quotas to allow fish stocks to recover. 

If we have a 'no deal' situation, you can expect more giant freezer ships (as we wont be able to sell as much fresh fish) and far fewer smaller boats.

 

All evidence in the agriculture sector is that we should expect a period of deregulation. Pesticides that are currently banned being re-introduced.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/12/uk-accused-silently-eroding-eu-pesticide-rules-brexit-laws

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/11/bee-killing-pesticide-row-farmers-union-accused-secretly-campaigning/

 

And here is the head of the environment agency taking about repealing the Water Framework Directive. Basically there are currently 4 measures used to assess the health of lakes, rivers and estuaries. He is openly talking about reducing the standards by which the cleanliness of waterways are measured.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/in-praise-of-red-tape-getting-regulation-right

 

I know i am reading between the lines, but i base these views on available evidence. And in my view, none of this is good for people that enjoy the environment and want to see it protected.

 

 

[Rob]

British boats and companies will be bought by the French and Spanish.

The only thing that we will control is the policy and let's hope we reduce the quota and take.

R

[Newboy]

39 minutes ago, Rob said:

British boats and companies will be bought by the French and Spanish.

The only thing that we will control is the policy and let's hope we reduce the quota and take.

R

 

If the catch are landed in the UK, taxes would be paid into the UK coffer, isn't it?

Also he UK would have control over the yearly quota. They can increase or reduce the quota according to research.

[Rob]

Agreed Kam, but is having the balls to protect stocks and not follow the money is what I want!!!

[Tarlach.]

Agreed Kam, but is having the balls to protect stocks and not follow the money is what I want!!!

Don’t we all Rob!!


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[Death Trap II]

agreed, that is what i want. But all the evidence leads me to the conclusion that that is not what is going to happen.