Another Near Miss

[Paul D]

See this link :-

 

 

Boat sinks - saved by kayak and surfboard

 

[Paul D]

Similar one from last month.

 

Boat sinks

 

The common theme is small boats sink so fast that there is not sufficient time to don lifejackets. Food for thought.

[Paul J]

Whats the point in having life jackets if you don't wear them

[Afishionado]

Whats the point in having life jackets if you don't wear them

 

My fishing club says I have to have them 'aboard'. There is no rule about wearing them! Makes one think dunt it???

Most never wore car seat belts until they became compulsory, is there a message in all this?

 

Mad Mike

[petesnr]

The discussion about whether to make the wearing of lifejackets compulsory within the club has come up before and foundered on a number of points. Firstly, many members myself included wear flotation jackets or suits many of which are rated as buoyancy aids rather than lifejackets. They do have the advantage of retaining a certain amount of body heat and there are documented cases of people surviving much longer than would otherwise have been expected because they were wearing one.

Secondly there is the question of enforcement--its no use having a rule if it can't be enforced as we found with safety equipment checks.

Thirdly we have decided as a club that individual responsibility is the only practical way forward but I am happy to back any proposal to recommend the wearing of buoyancy--preferably a lifejacket at all times when afloat.

 

Pete

[Paul J]

Yep, i agree, it's about personal choice and personal responsibility.

Like Seat belts, i just hope people don't have to learn the hard way eg: have an accident/emergency, i got my wake up call in Kimmeridge

 

Paul J

[Maverick Martin]

My fishing club says I have to have them 'aboard'. There is no rule about wearing them! Makes one think dunt it

Actually your club only advises that they should be aboard. The responsibility for safety on any craft lies with the skipper. The skipper has a duty of care to all those that are taken afloat on his/her craft.

 

We are a club and as such can advise on the rights and wrongs. We are not policemen. If a rule to implement the wearing of life jackets were brought in we would not have the means to enforce it and would therefore leave the club open to claims of negligence. I would rather see members retained in the club where we could try and educate correct procedures than alienate people to learn on there own.

 

However it

[duncan]

taking responsibility for 'rights and wrongs' is a huge issue in itself

 

I think the club has been heading in the right direction in this personally

 

Recomendations re safety and regulation/rules re comp fishing

[duncan]

sry manged a double

[Afishionado]

I tend to go along with the 'it's up to the individual' line of thought. My post was meant to promote a discussion which it seems to be doing.

 

Accepting that the logic is probably flawed, I think that on a nice clear sunny day with low wind I would not wear a life jacket. A bit more wind and a grey sky, wind over tide and I'm in mine no fear mate!

 

Mad Mike

[alun j.]

Common sense = EXPERIENCE

 

Advice, rules and regulation try to make up for lack of experience.

 

Problems arise when lack of experience is catastrophic.

 

Best response = more experience and less bravado !

 

I think the direction of the club at present is spot - on :- Loads of advice and many opportunities for increasing experience with 'seasoned salty dogs'

 

'He who fights and runs away.........' recipe for learning.

 

A.

[blueboatdriver]

I've worked on boats in any weather you can think of since I was 17 years old and it has never been practical to wear a life jacket; the auto inflate ones are ok but will inflate on you as soon as a wave swamps the deck which is quite often, in the North of Scotland.

However now I'm going out in my own small boat with my small son I have bought some lifejackets which cost quite a bit. I have started to wear one all the time. When angling they are not an interference and will work much better when worn than if they are stowed away.

 

I do think though, it's a size thing; I know that a boat my size could easily be turned over or made to sink quickely but when I go out on a bigger boat like Matt's (Bliss 2) for example I would not put on a lifejacket until the weather turned exceptionally bad or the circumstances deemed it.

 

It's up to the individual where you draw the line on safety. We can't all afford to wear personal EPIRBs which in an ideal situation we would.

[Newboy]

I too will wear either a floatation suit or a lifejacket on my boat. Having doing a bit of chatering in the last couple of months, whenever I wear my life jacket I was looked upon as 'weird', altho not comfortable but never the less I will carrying on wearing it.

[Swainiac]

Martin, you say that we wouldn't have the means to enforce it, which is untrue. As you quite rightly pointed out, there is a duty of care placed upon the skipper of any vessel, therefore, it is he who says who is carried on his craft, and the rules that each passenger must abode by. One of these rules could be the compulsory wearing of lifejackets. I have had no end of mickey taking when out on charter boats and donning my lifejacket prior to getting on board the vessel, but hopefully, I'll be alive to laugh later.

 

The seas are possibly at their highest yearly temperature now, and as the winter season progresses, we'll see an increase in the number of times we don flotation suits. More and more suits now have floatation included in the trousers, and these, not matched with a jacket...perhaps its a warm day...is a recipe for disaster. sensibilty takes over, it shouldnt be a case of do we wear a life jacket today, we should set an example, and make it compulsory, this is easily policed by all skippers in the club.

 

The six milion dollar question is, unfortunately, do all our skippers practice this?? We already know the answer to the question. Food for thought methinks.

 

Rich

[jack]

My wife and I ,as well as the 2 dogs Never go out without lifejackets ON in the Zodiac. However Andy and I seldom wear our Lifejackets ,although they are always within reach on the seat.I do usualy wear my flotation suit,especially when its not very warm,as I am a cold bloodied soul at the best of times.On Sunday just we were out all day in the Ledge and Needles Area,It was very lumpy and uncomfortable,anchor recovery from the foredeck was exciting/scary,to say the least,we were crashing and staggering about all day,and during a discussion about recent newsworthy evetns,we have decided that its" lifejackets on,"at all times in future unless millpond conditions.If I have to put mine on over my flotation suit,so be it.I would be better off looking "soft" than "dead" !.....So get your lifejackets on chaps and we can all look "soft" together... jack

[Maverick Martin]

Martin, you say that we wouldn't have the means to enforce it, which is untrue.

Rich

 

Who police's the skippers? We as a club certainly do not have the means to. The nature of our sport means we are well spread around so there would be no way of ensuring that everyone was abiding by the rule. Most of the rules that are in place currently are not policed so how could we hope to police a rule as contentious as you must wear. Most of our rules rely on the honesty and goodwill of the membership, but when it concerns safety you have to be proactive if only to cover your rear end. If something untoward did happen where would the buck stop? ie: that boat was operating outside of your club rules why do you not enforce your rules? hypothetical I know but in this day and age of litigation we have to be so careful. Most of the recent club rule changes have been brought about after a lot of soul searching but at the end of the day the officers are duty bound to protect the club as a whole. I hope that makes sense.

 

If however anyone thinks it should be a club rule then please bring forward any proposals and they will be discussed and voted on at the AGM. Personally I would rather it were a recommendation but am open to suggestions.

 

BTW it is now a rule onboard Maverick that all crewmembers either wear a floatation suit or life jacket or both. I just have to remember to wear mine

 

Martin

 

[petesnr]

Richard

We would still have to have a procedure for checking that the skippers are abiding by the club rule otherwise we are open to negligence claims if a tragedy ensued. At the very least enforcement would be cumbersome and in reality it would be impossible so the committee/safety officer would still not know if compliance was taking place. I would suggest that strong recommendation is as far as we can go. Crew can always vote with their feet and skippers can refuse to take people they consider as a risk to their own or others safety.

Pete

[Swainiac]

Martin, Peter, weve hit the nail on the head. Its a personal choice to wear a life jacket. It's not law, it cant be enforced, so why issue reccomendations to club memebers to wear jackets?

 

I will recount a short story, re. a very close friend of mine who is no longer with us. He was on board a joint services sailing exped. in the med, just finished a night sail, and coming into Los Gigantes harbour. The boat was at anchor, awaiting the harbour master to open the harbour. Harbour master opened the harbour, ship enters harbour under aux power, freak wave hits boat, pushes it up onto rocks, hull is holed, four crew members go out of the holed hull, life jackets FAIL to inflate, two crew dead, two crew recovered with serious injury.

This doesnt distract from the fact that two crew were wearing lifejackets, two weren't. One of those crew who was, was my best friend, his life jacket didnt save him, from that day on, I vowed to wear a jacket when out at sea, I try to abide by my self imposed rule. I'd hate to be a casualty for a skipper to have on his conscience.....likewise, I think that for a skipper to have a casualty on his consience would be a hard cross to bear, especially when the club reccomends safety equipment to be worn, and the fact that we appoint a safety officer echoes this.

 

I personally feel that we should have this as a club rule, enforced by skippers. All skippers I have crewed for in the club, i find responsible people, however, we only have to experience one accident, then how would this thread read???

 

Rich