Newboy Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 How does the length of a rod relate to the type of fish targeting? I understand conger need short, 6' strong rods (broom stick), what is a long 8-9' strong rod for? What is the difference between a thru action rod, and a fast tapering(?) rod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 The only time I tend to use shorter "stand-up" rods are when I am fishing for very large fish (Tuna, Marlin, Shark etc) and I am strapped into appropriate harness etc. and using mono. This technique uses quite a different fighting strategy to most of our UK fishing - you use your knees not you arms to inch the fish in. Nearly all my UK fishing uses Rods in excess of 7 feet long with a medium soft taper (more later) and braided main line. A longer rod tends to absorb much more of the lunges and dives a fish makes and as a result is a little less forgiving when using braided line with nearly no stretch. In the UK my choice of rod depends more on how much lead I need to reach the bottom than how big the fish is likely to be and we regularly and easily catch big Pollock, Ling and Cod on 6lb class, Tope etc on 12lb class and very large Conger on 20lb class with not too much difficulty. The difficulty comes with species such as Ray in a tide run when they "Kite" off downtide. A rod which is too light here will simply fold up and loose its ability to pump a fish in. Likewise, when you need a lot of lead, you need to step up the class of rod to make winding in easier. Taper: A fast taper rod is one that would typically start at the tip as its thinest point, but very quickly reach it's maximum thickness (The taper of the rod blank reaches it's thinest bit fast). The action of a rod like this is usually quite stiff with the tip of the rod doing all the bending and less bending through the bottom section. Uptide rods are usually fast taper as they need to have a soft sensitive tip, but plenty of power through the rest of the rod. All through action. This is a rod that bends pretty much right through its length. Here the taper of the rod is much more gentle. Cheap versions of all through rods can feel a little "sloppy" to use, but a more refined version or just a slightly faster taper rod lends itself nicely to the use of braid and also for hauling big fish. In the case of braid, the bendyness of the rod allows some give when the line is not stretching and in the case of big fish it helps tire a fish more quickly without tiring you as fast. I am not sure if that makes any sense at all as I wrote it as the words came into my head. Other people may be able to say it more clearly. I have attached a little picture to try and show different tapers. Try and imagin how the rod would bend when under load. My computer skills are distinctly lacking so you will need a little imagination! The top is Fast Taper which gives a rod that bends lots at thetop, but not much else. The second is a medium action rod (Medium Taper) The third is an all through action or slow taper. All the best Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 AKam, A longer rod lets you cast better You can move more line for each sweep of the rod, better action for feathers, lures pirks and jigs. it also allows better striking action where required, the more line you can move the faster the hookset. You have more control over your line, eg on a crowded charter boat you can keep out of the way of tangles easier. A shorter rod has more leverage against a hard fighting fish thats holding deep and straight down. This can be really hard work on a long rod. A thru action rod is softer and has a cushioning action, it generally bends all the way down to the handle on a bigger fish. A fast taper is more meaty in the midlle and wont generally bend further than this section. you need a fast or medium taper if you going to strike at fish like bream where you need to be quick. hope this helps Paul J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boybilly Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Good answers, couldnt have put it better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 If you want an example of a through action rod then the Fladen Solid-C rods bend equally right through their whole length. There is a picture somewhere of a ray hanging on the end of my 12-20lb rated one which shows the action well, I'll see if I can find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 great ansews. just pick up on this point though A longer rod tends to absorb much more of the lunges and dives a fish makes and as a result is a little less forgiving when using braided line with nearly no stretch. I think you meant a little more forgiving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Erhem, yes Duncan I did mean MORE forgiving PS: Has anyone bothered to look at my very high tech diagrams of fishing rods. They took me an awful long time to draw and I am very proud of them... I am also a bottle of Cotes du Rhone down and it isn't even 7 o'clock, sorry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 If you want an example of a through action rod then the Fladen Solid-C rods bend equally right through their whole length. I am quite a fan of Fladen Maxximus rods. Cheap as chips (the fittings tell you this). Great fun to use, and VERY all through to the point of having that slightly sloppy feeling, but good blanks. They are so all through that if you get a decent fish on you must be very careful of the top of your thumb as it tends to get cut by the braid when the fish runs! OUCH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 great ansews. just pick up on this point though A longer rod tends to absorb much more of the lunges and dives a fish makes and as a result is a little less forgiving when using braided line with nearly no stretch. I think you meant a little more forgiving Are you suggesting using a short rod loaded with braid is a big no no for big congers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Kam. This is fine for Congers, Just don't go too heavy and kill the sporting element. If you after monsters then yeh get a broom stick Paul J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I wasn't suggesting anything Kam. However conger fishing has it's own unique (well over here anyway) set of circumstances - 1. tough mouths so you won't get a hook pull (stopping a pollack in it's tracks will often get ripped mouth result if your tackle holds together) 2. giving line may result in a lost fish 3. even a long trace may give the fish enough room to get to cover before registering a bite 4. getting the fishes head pointing the direection you want it to go is no guarantee it will go that way! Thus over the years you will find a wide range of solutions being developed for all the above - right up to Vic Evans ultimate solution - Big reel Drag done up with pliers - ie no longer a drag but a direct drive system! Solid metal bar snood between boom and hook - coathanger wire is excellent! If good braid was around then he would have been using 120lb! With the above the rod is going to be whatever you can hang on to!!! As stated above a longer rod can provide more leaverage but generally a shorter rod allows you to put all the loading you can handle into the fight - it has often been suggested that 25lb is realistically all the load you can really put into the equation over time - and equally for everything but conger (over here) all you need to. But of course higher load are exhibited from time to time! Basically Short rod = low gear Long rod = high gear but few have the power to use it! Personally I use braid for everything but have lever drag reels set light and generally softer rods. My one 'exception' is a Berkley Firestick 50lb 7'6" rod (which is a vv fast taper)which I twin with the Formula 15kg and 60lb XDS braid - however I use it maybe once a year and have yet to hook anything on it that can bend it..............someday I will be on that offshore wreck and just know it's the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Thanks everyone for their advice. I want a 100lb+ conger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamouse Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 A shorter rod has more leverage against a hard fighting fish thats holding deep and straight down. This can be really hard work on a long rod. Just a minor picky point, wouldn't a short rod actually have LESS leverage on the fish? Long rods are harder to work because the fish applies more leverage on the angler i.e it is applying the same force to the end of a longer lever. Steve actually, thinking as I type....it is the term 'leverage' that's the problem. You can apply more force to the line down a short rod, and that's because it is a shorter lever. Too heavy for a monday morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob F Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Steve, I think it's also about the leverage that a big fish can use against you. With a long rod a heavy fish can exert more leverage on your arms and back, so it's more tiring for you. BF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Whilst the laws of simple physics do apply here (short lever V long lever) an awful lot can be taken into account by using a "bendy" or soft rod. A simple broom stick will sap every bit of strength out of you as you are taking all the punishment the fish can deliver whereas a softer rod will sap more of the fishes strength as it's lunges are taken up by the rod and not your arms. Personally for "fun" congering I favour a rod about 7'6" with a medium taper. A short stand-up rod used for day to day congering is not a lot of fun with the rod and reel doing little more than skull dragging them to the surface. I am sure that a lot of people have hooked eels that hang on something rotten for the first minute or two and then become pretty easy to drag in. A slightly more flexible set up allows you to still gain on the fish, but that tussel will last a lot longer and be much more fun. I know I go fishing to enjoy the scrap, not to winch it to the surface unceremoniously. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 actually, thinking as I type....it is the term 'leverage' that's the problem. You can apply more force to the line down a short rod, and that's because it is a shorter lever. Too heavy for a monday morning That's what i meant to say- i stand up corrected Paul J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Talking about dragging them unceremoniously to the surface, when I was in Spain I noticed a good selection of electric powered reels in the local tackle shop. To go with them were small broomstick type rods designed to fit into the boat rod holders. This set up would take all the back breaking work out of big game/conger fishing, but I really couldn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I watched them doing this is Australia last year. The guy hauled a 12v car battery onto the boat, I wondered what he was up to but then I remembered he was an Aussie! At least he did not kiss the fish .............. they were too scared of him! Coddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Talking about dragging them unceremoniously to the surface, when I was in Spain I noticed a good selection of electric powered reels in the local tackle shop. To go with them were small broomstick type rods designed to fit into the boat rod holders. This set up would take all the back breaking work out of big game/conger fishing, but I really couldn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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