BigMac Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I'm sure there was a thread about this recently, but I've looked everywhere and I can't find it, so I apologise if I'm covering old ground here, but........... We bought a new anchor rope just before xmas and fitted it with new 60lb anchor ( made by Stainless Steve) and suitable length of chain but we're still dragging anchor on a neap tide and the rope has to be the problem. When deploying the anchor at the weekend I noticed that the rope floats on the surface for a long time before the boat comes tight and, in effect, sinks it. The rope we bought is 14mm and made of some sort of (very bouyant) man made material that resembles BT draw cord. Can anyone recommend a particular type or make of rope, a 150m or 200m length? I also think we could step down to 12mm to cut down on the drag? Cheers Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Hi Allan, Sounds like you have some pretty heavy gear that should hold in normal conditions. Just to clarify...what pattern of anchor is it (CQR/Delta/Bruce/Danforth are good general purpose, but grapnel/fishermans best for rock)? What bottom material are your trying to anchor in..sand/shingle etc? What length do you let out, and have you marked the rope so that the actual length used can be clearly seen ? With a short chain and floating rope you might need 5x depth or more. All chain might let you work with 3x depth, as the weight of the chain makes the pull closer to horizontal, and it will dig in more effectively. Does your definition of "suitable" mean sufficient to counteract chafe on the rope, or sufficient to achieve a horizontal pull in most realistic depths? It might be something as simple as marking the rope and letting more rope out! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Hi Allan Sounds like you are using Polyprop which is nasty bunchy, floaty stuff. Personally spend a little cash and get yourself some decent English Braids Multiplait which is soft, coils beautifully and SINKS. You really shouldn't need a 60lb anchor!!!! That is huge and would hold a boat of 50 plus feet. You should be able to at least half that weight, maybe a little more. For your boat, a 14Kg or max 16Kg anchor (I use Britany as it fits in the cheeks of my bow roller), coupled to about 15 metres of 8 or 10mm chain on to multplait should hold you tight in any tide and very rarely slip. ...mine hardly ever slips in anything up to 140 foot and I only carry 100m rope. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markee_b Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I'm just nearing the end of my RYA Dayskipper theory, and there's a whole section on "Cordage" i.e. ropes...a lot of this is aimed at the wind assisted sorts (WAFI I believe the correct terminology ) but there still useful info on the 3 main types of rope (Terylene, Nylon , Polyprop) and it's uses...sounds like you've got polyprop and should be using nylon, but if you'd like to see the chapter in full the PM me your email address and I'll forward it you as a pdf document. Of course the offer applies for anyone else who may be interested in this or any other part of the course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markee_b Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 get yourself some decent English Braids Multiplait Surely this would be non-stretch Tom and not ideally suited to anchor warp ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I think the term braid is the way it weaved together, not braid as in braid we used for fishing. Nylon is the stufff to use, it gives and it sinks, multiplit just gives it a stronger rope with smaller diameter, that's all. If the boat drags with a 60lb anchor, it's almost defo a wrong type of anchor for the ground you were anchored to, or maybe not enough chain and/or too short rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markee_b Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Sounds like you could do with a read of my "Cordage" document Kam It really is most informative and its free.... Edited to show that we're really speaking the same language !!! This is the "official" RYA line...yes, Nylon because of it's shock absorbing qualities, and yes, braided/plaited nylon is best as it handles/coils/lays better.... We recommend various types of synthetic rope for the following applications. Mooring ropes: nylon is strong and shock-absorbent but the cheaper polypropylene is usually adequate if renewed periodically. Anchor warps: always use nylon because it is strong and elastic with excellent shock-absorbent property. Plaited nylon is most suitable as it will lay better when uncoiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Mark Kam has it sust. English Braids is a rope manufacturer. Multiplait is simply a term for multiple cords woven together. Octoplait tends to have 8 cords, Multiplait may have twelve. It tends to give a very soft and supple rope that coils easily. On my own boat with a windlass within the rope locker it was the only sensible option for the fisherman requiring greater amount of rope than, say, a cruising boat who anchors in a bay. Standard anchor rope is usally three plait and works fine if manually coiled in a rope locker or bin. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Bettle boasts.......I use Britany as it fits in the cheeks Now there's a bloke with a big arse!! Anyway to be serious..... The warp you have is polypropene and it is bouyant, however that has nothing to do with your anchor not holding. The total bouyancy of all your anchor warp would not be enough to float a 20oz weight so the fact that it is bouyant is a total red herring. As you already have it keep it and use it for a couple of seasons untill it starts to degrade.* I am staggered that you have a 60lb anchor!!! What sort of boat are we talking about? Secondly where were you attempting to anchor? No one can start to answer your problem untill they know the answer to these two questions. * The real drawbacks of polyprop as it is commonly called are ........ 1/ It is degradeable in sunlight 2/ As it degrades it becomes brittle and 'spiky' to handle 3/ It is a bar steward to coil neatly and keep in place 4/ Diameter for diameter it is far weaker than Nylon ropes. 5/ It floats so it is not suitable for crab pots as at low water the top of the rope is on the surface and can get caught up by passing boats. Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMac Posted April 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Mike, the boat is a 23 ft Aquafish. It weighs in around 3.25 tonnes loaded. We were anchoring in 35m of water over sand an hour into the flood tide. Might have exaggerated the anchor weight a tad, but I reckon it must be 45lb. Its a Danforth design and has 12m of ( not really sure, but its about the same diameter as the rope, eg 14mm ish) chain attached to it. The previous owner had lost the anchor and replaced it with a cheap danforth of 6kg which wouldn't hold the boat at any stage of any tide. He had also lost 50m of the 100m of anchor rope (he never really fished at anchor in deep water) so we replaced it with this bargain 220m, (97 quid) coil of poly-prop line that is terrible to handle and coil. Should have paid the money and got decent rope in the first place, by the looks of it Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMac Posted April 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Sorry forgot to say, Estimate we had let out at least half the coil (110m) if not, a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Allan Personally recommend the following based on the weight of your boat and the fact I have a fractionally lighter (my anchor is a jot down from what I am about to say) set up which has only slipped once since I have been using it. 14Kg Britany Anchor (I have a 12Kg which is rated to 3000Kg yours is rated to 4000Kg) Small shackel or suitable swivel. 21m of 8m chain (anything over 15m should be adequate, but this is from "the book") Spliced to as much 3 strand or multiplait as you can squeeze into your rope locker or bin. That'll sort you out nicely. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlieannear Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Have a look in the club members only section for an indication of rope prices: Rope prices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamouse Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 In my limited experience, the Danforth is not at all effective over any kind of hard ground. In my case, with a 4kg Danforth on a 16 footer, damn thing wouldn't even bite into mud! Bruce, Plough and Fisherman's patterns all seem to reasonably good all-rounders, I've used a Bruce for 5 seasons now and it's good on reef (if you dare ) as well as soft ground. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Allan, first up the answer to why the anchor did not grip is because its a Danforth, it's as simple as that. The Danforth type is best used with chain throughout so the pull on it is virtualy horizontal. The 'rules' for anchoring etc are written for anchoring up over say a 12 hr period at night without someone on anchor watch. If this is the type of use you intend to use then stick to the rules. BUT We are fishermen, and the type of anchoring we require has different criteria. Firstly we rarely settle for more than a few hours and some times a lot less. We need an anchor that is easy to retrieve and lift into the boat. We need an anchor that will work on a wide variety of bottom ground. We are usualy awake and alert (HA Ha ) when at anchor. We tend to anchor where others wouldn't (fast water, rocky bottoms etc) So we can work to sort of ammended rules. One is that rope is less expensive than chain and much nicer to handle, Next although 'rules' for yachties talk about 5X depth we can get away with less something like 3X or less in certain circumstances' We need an all rounder for an anchor. We need an anchor that will trip (that is turn upside down when over stressed by a vertical pull). So, in your situation if you don't want the expense of changing the rope that's OK stick with it for the time being. Make sure you have a good 25ft of chain fixed to the anchor via a trip device. BUT most of all CHANGE THAT ANCHOR One of the most popular with sports fishermen is the Bruce type (A Bruce clone off ebay is quite cheap compared with the proper one). Another good anchor believe it or not is the old fashioned 'Fishermans'. The weight of the anchour for ease of use shouldn't go over 25lb. Personally I would go for something around 7.5Kg or maybe 10Kg if I was nervous. It is the 'hooking' power not the weight that matters. Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Good points Mike, I've just bought myself a 6kg Bruce clone from Cobb's Quay chandlers (think it was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Quote...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 By the way Paul how are the tact and diplomacy lessons coming along? Mad Mike He's still waiting for the first lesson from you Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Touch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 It never ceases to amaze me how many top quality anchors and warp are left discarded lying over wrecks that abound locally. If anyone would like pre-owned equipment of this nature I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob F Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Go for it Gordon. A list of reclaimed achors and kit would be great. I lost a few anchors but they've got my name imprinted on them. cheers Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I lost a few round the west Wight area, mine have 5kg inprinted on them...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markee_b Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 I need an anchor - if anyone has a good 10kg one that is surplus to requirement ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 I need an anchor - if anyone has a good 10kg one that is surplus to requirement ??? Mark I use a 7.5 kilo bruce on my Warrior 195 (6 metre) and think this size would be more than sufficient on a 5.8 merry fisher. I very rarely encounter problems just make sure you have an adequate length of chain Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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