Alba 6lb Class "longboat"

[TomBettle]

Hi guys

 

For information, this review was done after a forum member of WSF sent me a rod to try. Stan Massey hand builds rods from various blanks manufacturers, in this instance it was Conoflex.

Stan's brief was to try and build a really good all rounder, my brief was to try and pull it apart:

 

The initial review cut and paste from WSF

Expected selling price of this hand crafted rod will be around

Edited March 17, 2007 by TomBettle

[Swainiac]

Tom, if it handles similar to an Ugly Stick, and looks to all intents and purposes like an Ugly Stick, and you need to beef up the rings and shorten the butt, then why spend

[Bob F]

An interesting read, Tom.

 

BF

[Paul J]

Tom,

 

Sounds like youre not used to having a long rod in your hand

 

Nice report

 

PJ

[Adam F]

Good report Tom, I'll be interested to see it in the flesh.

 

It sounds like the Grey's Longboat to me, to be honest, a little too long, and a little to powerful.

 

I have been searching for ever for a decent 6lb class rod, that really is 6lb and was hoping this might be it!

 

I'll stick with my 12lb Abu's.....

[duncan]

I know what you mean Adam

 

Tom's review does highlight very well the issue of line ratings ie it's just not that simple from a users perspective.

 

My best 'all round rod' is my Team Normark 12lb at 7'6" but the bulk of the AFCO braid rollers on a thin blank is always a little offputting.

 

Anyway why would anyone want a single all round rod? Anyone tried suggesting to their better half that one pair of shoes is all that's needed????

[TomBettle]

Tom, if it handles similar to an Ugly Stick, and looks to all intents and purposes like an Ugly Stick, and you need to beef up the rings and shorten the butt, then why spend

[duncan]

Discussions are now taking place of a reducer on the butt to give the choice of long or short butt (whilst maintaining a balanced rod).

 

I have to say this was the extremely obvious conclusion when reading your review. If they made the butt extender a twist lock - slide back in - affair they cover off the balance (to a degree) and avoid two butts...........

[TomBettle]

Just as an add on to Rich getting the wrong end of the stick (pardon the punn) on the Ugly Stik inference...

 

An Ugly Stik is a very useable rod, if that is what you like, but the weight of them is phenomenal and the materials, whilst good are very dated.

(don't get me wrong, I was brought up with an original Ugly Stik 15lb class and still have fond memories)

The rings alone on the Alba cost more "trade" than the whole Ugly Stik at retail.

 

This is tackle snobbery at it's best, but there is something very special about knowing you are using one of the best tools for a job and even more snobbery knowing that it was built just for you with the grips of your choice, the wraps of your choice and even the rings of your choice.

 

If anyone wants to wave it around, I'll bring in the mark 1 at the next meeting...

If I have the butt back from Stan as I have sent this away for some mods to make it more user friendly for downtiding in it's current "mark 1" form..

Edited March 18, 2007 by TomBettle

[duncan]

I was brought up with an original Ugly Stik 15lb class and still have fond memories

 

1381/015 8'6"

 

still got mine - wouldn't swap it. It's brilliant with braid and a LD reel but..................................

 

 

...............heavy

[TomBettle]

That's the kiddy Duncan.

Amazing butt, fantastic priest and a top that was great for tieing in knots!

 

***

 

 

I directed Stan to take a look at the comments on here and he found them useful.

 

Thanks for the feedback!!!!

 

He has mentioned in passing (through email, he's Scottish and doesn't speak English or certainly not in any dialect I have ever heard) that there are UK spec 4lb and 6lb class rods available.

 

I have asked him for the low down on length and action of both of these rods and as always the basics (grips, rings, wraps) will be customised for you.

 

Adam, and for that matter anyone else, would you like the details when I get them?

 

Tom

Edited March 18, 2007 by TomBettle

[Swainiac]

Tom, you obviously need to push a few weights chap!!!!!! I can't honestly say I feel it a heavy rod to use, but then I dont sit at a desk all day!!!!

 

Even my 50lb class Ugly is an ok rod to use all day. My 12lb class rod took Ling to 19lb and conger to 30lb out of a wreck, thats without the tip dipping into the sea!!

 

Hand built rods are nice, I have a custom built Terry Eustace "Big Tench" rod tucked away somewhere, which was a joy to use. he only thing I have against spending huge amounts on gear is the thought of it getting stolen, and then being sold on for a pittance to some spotty herbert in a pub carpark.

 

I'll stick to my cheap and very useable rods!!

 

Rich

[TomBettle]

Hand built rods are nice, I have a custom built Terry Eustace "Big Tench" rod tucked away somewhere, which was a joy to use. he only thing I have against spending huge amounts on gear is the thought of it getting stolen, and then being sold on for a pittance to some spotty herbert in a pub carpark.

 

Rich

Why on earth would they get stolen....?

 

Even if they did, make sure you get the builder to put your name on the rod along with maybe the production number of the range then it is 100% unique to you.

If the spotty herbert really wants to take off the high build to etch out the ID details then he will now have lost virtually all the value in it in the first place.

 

I am not quite sure of the problem here Rich.

 

I am not selling these rods, but have been asked to test one, offer constructive criticism to the builders and review the rod publicly with some genuine opinions of my own.

That is what I have done. There is always a place for the low end gear and the high end gear. There was never an argument expected about price.

The difference is one uses high quality parts, fittings and is hand crafted whereas the other uses cheap parts and is turned in Japan.

No problem with either.

 

The whole point of the builder asking for it to be tested is he wants feedback from normal anglers about the rod, not the price.

Personally I feel that

[Newboy]

What I really want is a light (6lb rating?) rod which can handles 10oz (even 12oz) lead when drifting for bass.

 

Am I asking for too much?

[TomBettle]

What I really want is a light (6lb rating?) rod which can handles 10oz (even 12oz) lead when drifting for bass.

 

Am I asking for too much?

Yep!

 

I do use a Shimano Speedmaster 6 / 12 which will just about cope with 10oz and bait / lure, but it is extreme and the tip is doubled over.

 

A rod that will take 12oz is going to be closer to 12lb class.

Kam, why do you need 12oz when drifting? Even mid channel you should hardly ever (somwetimes Hurds Deeps) require more than 10oz on the drift.

 

UK rods are roughly rated as follows (the rules are differnt for IGFA ratings).

The line class of the rod is +/- 5 times the test curve.

The test curve is the amount of pressure to bend the rod into it's 90degree fighting curve.

 

Therefore and approximate as all manufacturers vary a little.

Also I have shown an approximate coarse fishig rating for the lighter rods to get an idea of how our gear compares to the fresh water anglers.

 

6lb class = 1.2lb test curve (Typical Tench rod power)

12lb class = 2.4lb test curve (Typical Carp rod power)

15lb class = 3lb test curve (Typical Pike rod power)

20lb class = 4lb test curve (Ideal for Nile Perch!)

30lb class = 6lb test curve (Monster Catfish!)

50lb class = 10lb test curve (what's the point in skull dragging?)

 

Line class bares very little resemblance to the actual size of fish you can capture.

Remember the above are UK based ratings for "our style" of fishing. They very roughly indicate the sort of line braking strain that can be used to balance the gear although this is becoming less relevant nowdays with ultra thin and strong braids. I for one use 12lb to 16lb braid on my 6lb class rod and 16lb to 23lb braid on my 12lb class rod.

 

IGFA ratings are, for some unknown reason, totally differnt from our own.

I have cut and pasted this directly from Alba rods website. Again this is an indication and each manufacturer has their own ratings.

IGFA STANDARD 12lb 20lb 30lb 50lb 80lb 130lb

UK EQUIVELANT 30lb 50lb 50- 80lb 80lb none none

Blue Water anglers will often use a rough ratio of 10:1 for their IGFA ratings.

What I mean is that they will choose a rod of about 1/10 the rating of the typical size fish they expect.

12lb class will be used for fish to 120lb and so on. This is not a science and much larger fish can be taken on improbably light gear and then on the flip side, some reef based game fish like GT's do require a level of bullying or you'll be smashed on the coral.

 

Using UK ratings I set my own guidelines of what I am comfortable with to handle the conditions on the day.

Very rarely do I set my gear to the fish I plan to catch, more to the amount of lead I require to fish. The possible exception to this would be Common Skate for which I would edge around the UK 50lb class purely because brute force is required to shift these rather ponderous kites.

 

Not a science, my own guidelines. Each angler will set their own.

6lb class up to 10oz of lead MAX (more comfotable with 6oz on the drift)

12lb class up to 12oz of lead MAX (maybe 1lb at a real push downtiding)

20lb class up to 1.25lb lead MAX (will use 1.5lb if I really have to, but hard work)

30lb class up to 2lb of lead.

 

If I ever need to use more than 2lb of lead I simply don't bother fishing. The fish we catch in UK waters are just not worth the effort on a heavy 30lb class rod whilst dragging around 2lb of lead.

 

 

Tom

 

[Newboy]

On some occasion fishing the race/banks for bass, condition dictates that lead has to be 10 or even 12 oz.

 

As I fish more, I just want to go lighter and lighter, as my confidence (or stupidity ) grows, I just wanna see how light I can go before it's breaks..........

 

[TomBettle]

On some occasion fishing the race/banks for bass, condition dictates that lead has to be 10 or even 12 oz.

 

As I fish more, I just want to go lighter and lighter, as my confidence (or stupidity ) grows, I just wanna see how light I can go before it's breaks..........

Kam

 

You were right with the latter...

 

....It's stupidity!

I am exactly the same. The thing is, it is great fun and so long as you don't over step the mark where the fish begin to suffer (incredibly light gear will still catch VERY big fish, but they tend to die of exhaustion in the process so no chance of catch and release).

 

This year the UK 6lb class rod I am about to get from Alba (buying by the way) is going to be used on Blue Sharks with the little Avet reel I mentioned before. The reel has stepped up braid on it to allow me to put some back into it so although the rod should bend a little the gear should cope.

 

That is why I use my formula above for downtiding / drift fishing.

I base the rod I take fishing on the day to the conditions, not the fish I catch.

 

I've never needed anything like 12oz in the race?

The commercials use very light leads 3oz / 4oz and literally bounce the bottom and float about in the tide, spooling line at the "hot spot" to keep it there.

Rich knows more about the technique.

 

heavy weights are often suggested by the charter skippers to us grockels who are not so skillful. It allows us amateurs to fish straight up and down.

The size of the Bass in the race is fairly small on average (sub 7lb) and the idea of using 12oz lead to catch them kind of defeats the sporting element in my mind.

I'd rather go for the 7lb plus fish either on the Poole / Lymington marks that we can catch using just a couple of ounces or freelining or the big doubles out on the wrecks using just 8oz.

[TomBettle]

Good report Tom, I'll be interested to see it in the flesh.

 

It sounds like the Grey's Longboat to me, to be honest, a little too long, and a little to powerful.

 

I have been searching for ever for a decent 6lb class rod, that really is 6lb and was hoping this might be it!

 

I'll stick with my 12lb Abu's.....

Adam

 

UK 6lb class rod arriving in a couple of weeks.

Standard butt length and fractionally more through action has been discussed.

In this instance we are fitting cheaper, alconite, guides which are usually cr@p with braid, however they are to be chromed to give the hardened edge to them.

The standard rod would also have a long butt, but this is being cut down to give a shorter overall length and the butt re weighted to balance the rod.

...It is this one that I think you'll be particularly keen on.

 

They even have a UK 4lb class for the masochists!

 

Developments will continue on the rod I have just tested and the mark II will still get a good going over when it arrives.

 

As mentioned before.

Anyone else is welcome to have a go.

Infact when the smoothies are in the Solent, if anyone is having a bash, let me know and they can try the mark one out with the long butt. I am convinced it will be superb sport for them and great as a light uptider.

[duncan]

hmm my Team Normark is an IGFA rated 12lb - which has a test curve of 2.25lb 'cos I tested it when I got it and didn't belive the matching 20 was that different (it was!).

 

an interesting discussion none the less - however there is unfortunately no real alternative to 'good usage' in establishing what a particuler rod does well at - and any weaknesses.

 

oh to have the opportunity to actually test a rod with a fish on the end of the line - last years flattie drifting sessions were without doubt the best opportunities I have ever had with clean ground, 3oz leads and up to 160ft of water; guess I will have to go back and try again with different gear..........

[TomBettle]

hmm my Team Normark is an IGFA rated 12lb - which has a test curve of 2.25lb 'cos I tested it when I got it and didn't belive the matching 20 was that different (it was!).

 

 

 

One or two manufacturers stamp IGFA xyz class on their rods without actually paying too much attention.

Some of the UK / European builders simply use the UK style ratings and slap an IGFA stamp on (they haven't been checked over by IGFA).

 

...Ever wondered why when you watch a video of someone playing a big Marlin (or whatever) on 50lb class...?

 

The rod doesn't appear to be bending that much compared to if you had been using your "heavy" wrecking rod.

It's because the 50 set-up the angler on the telly is using is more like our 80 or even heavier.

 

Check out the test curve on your St. Croix Duncan. You may prove me wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is heavier than you think.

[Newboy]

I was taught 2 different technique on bassing. The first use small lead and let it bounce way way behind the boat (Pat Carlin) and the second use enough lead so that the lure is just below and behind the boat, where you feel every 'ding dong' with the seabed, holds it there until connect with a fish. I like the second way and have had much more success with it, this is where sometime 12oz comes in.

[TomBettle]

I was taught 2 different technique on bassing. The first use small lead and let it bounce way way behind the boat (Pat Carlin) and the second use enough lead so that the lure is just below and behind the boat, where you feel every 'ding dong' with the seabed, holds it there until connect with a fish. I like the second way and have had much more success with it, this is where sometime 12oz comes in.

Arr but Kam

 

The only way you can fish light is the first way.

 

Not much fun hauling a 3lb schoolie in with 12oz lead hanging from his nose.

 

Tom

 

PS: I am only winding you up mate. If you are fishig for the pot then fish whichever is most productive for you. In the same breath, it's none of my business what method you use, I just hope you enjoy it as much as I do mine

Edited March 19, 2007 by TomBettle

[duncan]

Check out the test curve on your St. Croix Duncan. You may prove me wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is heavier than you think

 

it's not rated but I would have it up in the 4lb TC class. It's a more modern rod that has a recomended line - 8-14lb, casting weight and power rating - med/heavy.

 

I like it 'cos it weighs almost nothing! Matched to calcutta 400 the whole thing still weighs nothing............but as you say it's powerfull.

[Swainiac]

Tom, I was tongue in cheek earlier mate! I know your more scientific approach to gear, I tend not to confuse myself with such issues! Id rather just fish. If it works for me, I'm happy.

 

As far as bassing techniques go, Kam, you have to rememberthe commecial boys are fishing for a living, so their methods are tried and tested to quite fine lines. Charter skippers have anglers of differing abilities on board, and will advise a method that all anglers have a chance of catching with.

One benefit of fishing farther behind a boat full of anglers, is to get behind their terminal tackle, and out of the readed tangle zone! I recall in the weymouth festival year before last, I took bass on each drop, out of five drifts, and BB was unfortunately tucked in between the tangle brothers, and caught squat as he was knitted in each drift!!

 

I would tend to watch the bass boys, and try their methods, which will change as the tide eases, as will their target area. That way, the small boat owner can still get amoungst the fish each drift.

 

Tom, I would appreciate input on a medium (sub

[TomBettle]

Rich

 

Don't know on prices, but I susepect on all but the first you will find them "slightly" over budget.

I have tried all but the first, but heard very good reports about it.

 

1) Penn Giller Thriller 16lb class.

2) Geys Longboat 12/20 or the cheaper 20 (had the chance to test a very early prototype with the adjustable reel seat when the Greys boys joined me in Alderney in '05)

3) Shimano Speedmaster 12/20 (Love this rod, I own the 6/12 and it is a joy to use - comes in both standard and longer lengths - the 8'6" is the kiddy)

4) Abu Suveran Uptide (Don't knock it as an uptider as it has the adjustable butt making it a very practical light / mid weight downtider. Watch you don't get sand in the butt though!).

 

All the above are the mutz and would do you proud, but I guess they may well be over price in most instances. Sorry I am a tackle tart.... what can I do?