plaicemat Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) O/k, what knots do you bright sparks use for joining braid to nylon. I have been using an Albright knot for years which has always proved adequate but not, apparently when dealing with tope. I had several break-offs in Alderney and need a substitute. Terry. Edited June 15, 2009 by plaicemat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 O/k, what knots do you bright sparks use for joining braid to nylon. I have been using an Albright knot for years which has always proved adequate but not, apparently when dealing with tope. I had several break-offs in Alderney and need a substitute. Terry. You aren't tieing it right. I use it for Marlin and it's fine and it was certainly fine yesterday on some fairly big fish.... including Tope. If it slipped then you were either: 1) Not putting enough turns of braid around the mono or 2) Putting the tag end of braid back through the mono loop the wrong way (very common cock-up) Also try doubling over the braid when tieing the knot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) whilst no 2 is the most likely cause with normal lines I do find that doubling the braid (and even putting a twist in the doubled section as well) makes a difference with the ultra fine braid and soft mono combination. it's an absolute must when attaching braid direct to any swivel etc using a hard mono (Mason etc) with plenty of turns and the right 'return' is almost 100%, certainly relative to the mono to whatever link next down the line but.... if you are using light braid to strong mono and hook lengths (say 20lb braid to 50lb mono to a tope trace (real ones not the christchurch gang versions) then the braid to mono connection will be the weakest link and that's exactly where a failure should occur - if you see what I mean. However the failure should be in the actual braid in the early part of the knot. This would then be a reel drag setting failure rather than a knot failure......... on which subject if fishing in deep water and running fish you do need to adjust your drag settings for the significant reduction in spool diameter or the effective setting can be significantly increased over that set with a fully loaded spool. Edited June 15, 2009 by duncan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaicemat Posted June 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I can assure you Tom that I am tying it right, I've been a knot man for more years than I care to remember and can follow instructions. Some of my mountain knots have to be reliable for more than a big fish. I put 10 turns around, perhaps not enough, and am very particular about where the tag end goes. Perhaps there is too much discrepancy between the two breaking strains; I dont know but have never had one part before. One further thought that just occured to me, perhaps the braid has degarded and become weaker, it's been on there about 4 years, and it is always the braid that parts; I don't even get any twisted bits back that shows the knot has unravelled. Isn't it great when you can discuss these things. Thank you. Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 There is also the double grinner knot, search for it on youtube and a guy [Mike???] runs through it in detail and then also the allbright. Or look on WSF search J knot, I have yet to try that one but it looks simple enough. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun j. Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Hi Terry, Just a thought....... you mentioned over the weekend about a damaged ring; could this have abraded your braid and weakened it in parts that had caught it a bit ?? Alun. Ps......I don't think braid deteriorates to any great extent; I've got lots that's much older and is just fine !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaicemat Posted June 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Nice thought Alun but it was a different reel on the heavier outfit. The more I think about it, it was not the knot undoing, it was the braid snapping. Perhaps the line isn't as heavy as I thought and the nylon is too much for it. Dave showed me a knot, with instructions, and I tried it and it was fine but quite bulky. Don't know what it was called. Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boybilly Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Sig knot for me, never had it brewak at the knoy. YET!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boybilly Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Sorry ,fat fingers lead to spelling mistakes. Never had it break at the knot. YET!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffa Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Terry, I had quite a few braid breakages on my last trip out in April I gotta get back out soon I am pretty sure they were all upstream of the shock leader mono/braid knot In the panic of quickly retying a new leader with an Albright knot (I used 15 turns and doubled braid) to minimise lost fishing time I failed to notice that the braid was fluffing in areas up to 12 foot back from knot. Only found out when I got back home. Having in the meantime lost another set of terminal tackle due to breakage I put it down to the braid being trapped on the bottom in rocks or other likely crevices due to either tide, or fish(I had some eels on which I failed to land) I dont think it would have happened if I had been holding the rod at ALL times but if fishing more than one rod one has got to take preference. I now make it habit to strip back around 4 metres of braid and re-tie leader after each trip........Dont worry my trips are so few and far between I don't get through a lot of braid Peteg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conger king Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 why dont you take braid off and put back on the other way i do this a lot loads of money saved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) I can assure you Tom that I am tying it right, I've been a knot man for more years than I care to remember and can follow instructions. Some of my mountain knots have to be reliable for more than a big fish. I put 10 turns around, perhaps not enough, and am very particular about where the tag end goes. Perhaps there is too much discrepancy between the two breaking strains; I dont know but have never had one part before. One further thought that just occured to me, perhaps the braid has degarded and become weaker, it's been on there about 4 years, and it is always the braid that parts; I don't even get any twisted bits back that shows the knot has unravelled. Isn't it great when you can discuss these things. Thank you. Terry. 10 turns is not enough for braid on a single strand (not doubled). 17 turns is needed, 10 will slip with braid. I promise that if tied correctly (for braid) it will handle any Tope that swims unless you try to hold it without letting it run at all. Edited June 16, 2009 by TomBettle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaicemat Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Right, thanks for all that good advise chaps, as usual. I think I will reverse the line to be sure (good money saving tip which I had forgotten) and double the knot for extra strength. I'll let you know if it doesn't work. I would prefer to continue with the albright knot as I know how to tie it, the one Dave gave me being a bit more complex therefore increasing the chance of messing it up. So, when anyone's ready to go to Alderney again, I would like to give it a good testing. Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Terry there are a few line testing fish over here as well Billy how do you tie a SIG knot then mate? Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Terry there are a few line testing fish over here as well Billy how do you tie a SIG knot then mate? Charlie sig but not the way I know it - the ryoishi also shown is really usefull with thicker mono to hooks and swivels though really good thread discussing this and other knot options have fun my conclusions are that SIG is strongest slim beauty is easy and acceptably strong for most applications albright is similar strength but slightly toughter to tie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oysterboats Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 the knot i always use for braid to nylon is simplcity to tie and can be done in a hurry ie in between drifts and i have found to be extremely reliable as do everyone ive passed it on to, you make a loop in the mono and hold in your left hand you make a loop in the braid and hold in your right hand you then pass the braid through the mono and whip it up eight times pinch the the top of the whip and whip back down eight times you then pass the looped braid back out through the mono loop the same way that you came in ,now you must moisten the knot before you start to snug it up, gently tease the coils up to the end of the mono loop add more lube if needed and finish snugging up ,the finished knot will have aloop of braid and a single strand of braid sticking out and one strand of mono sticking out which need to be trimmed , i think the knots strength lies in the fact the braid knot is pulled up against the mono loop and trapping it there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 just adding another link - this to the yuckaton which tested highest in extensive testing in one of the American mags knot article on lines and knots article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaicemat Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Well, I've certainly got a lot to be going on with there and I'm sure some others have learnt something too. Yes, Charlie, I know we have testing fish over here but I don't tend to fish for them; congers and the like really don't do it for me but, hey, we're all different. I just tend to prefer lighter weight sport fishing which has probably developed from my game fishing pursuits. I used to enjoy a good tug but not so much these days. I'll leave them to the alpha hunters like the Chapman clan. As I am having to keep my leg elevated this week, I will have plenty of time to practice sigs, yukatons et al to my hearts content and give them a good testing. There is no doubt that knot development has certainly marched on compared to a few years ago when we all managed with two or three. Thanks again everyone. Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 few years ago when we all managed with two or three. I tie a half blood knot for swivels, hooks etc to mono. And an Albright for braid to mono connections. Can't think of any others I ever use, certainly (k)not regularly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Can't think of any others I ever use, certainly (k)not regularly.... Groan that bad Edited June 18, 2009 by great white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boybilly Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 What a very interesting thread this turned out to be. Some very good links there lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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