Malroy

Hi,

Yes it was 3/4" that the guys up at Warrior recommended when I went up there.

When you are countersinking the stainless to let the head drop below the surface, you will find that 3/4" still protrudes thru' the strip. When I actually fitted them this worked out fine, going thru' the glass and into the wood.

You need a really good and accurate pilot drill. I actually snapped a couple of screws even at 3/4" length but managed to get them out, if you go for more you have a further risk of snapping when biting into the hard wood.

On the technical side the actual required amount for a screw to function i.e. to secure, is 1 1/2 times its diameter on positive bite.

When making your own keelbands, make sure you are using 316 grade stainless.

2.5mm to 3.0mm thick is ideal. Bending is achieved fine if you secure at stern first then work your way round the front by bending as you go.

On the Warriors, the keelband is tapered from end to end so parallel strips are not suitable. Warrior suggested 3/4" long csk head screws as a max to avoid any going thru', Silkoflex to seal.

We have two high powered laser cutting machines at work so I was fortunate in beng able to get mine cut in two lengths (cut from 2500mm long x 1250mm W sheets). This was done measuring the width at 200mm intervals to get the taper right and the holes were also laser cut.

Still had to csk all the holes though, Cobalt cutters and drills help a lot, slow speeds with coarse feed to eliminate the risk of rubbing & burnishing.

I manage to keep my rope neat by using two tubs - one inside the other.

My standard tub is the type with two rope handles like you get at most hardware shops.

Inside side this I managed to find and fit a similar length plastic tub with a smaller diameter which just actually fits the anchor inside of it.

The smaller tub is bolted inside the centre of the larger tub. My main line is coiled around between the two tubs and never gets tangled. The centre tub takes the anchor & chain + surplus rope if you are using Alderny ring recovery.

I have drilled both tubs all over with a large circular hole cutter to enable the tubs to drain and the ropes to breath.

http://www.porthcawl-insurance.co.uk/

You will have a job beating them (Approved by Warrior).

Malc

On the subject of safetey and for anybody who may be interested, take a look on Fylde Boat Clubs web site - safety ( ww.fbac.co.uk ).

They have done a lot of work in conjunction with the RNLI safety checks thus coming up with both Silver & Gold SeaCheck award systems in respect to equipment/training requirements that are relative to the nature of launching.

Not being able to join a boat club in the vacinity where I regulary launch on Anglesey (as there just arn't any) and normally launching on our own (wife and I), we set the Gold as our target as we had no other benchmarks.

Its not cheap by any measure, i.e. 2nd backup VHF and back up VHF Aerial etc.

We still felt this to be quite appropriate as we go out on our own all the time & up to about 15 miles offshore and the Gold is levelled at covering this.

Levels of safety gear needed can be very relevant to how many there are of you and where you are going. There's a lot said for the old saying "safety in numbers", so when on your own you need to be extra specially protective.

Late last year we had our 1st SeaCheck done using this as the benchmark.

During the check the Advisor noted on the report a couple of things that had been missed i.e. reflective tape on the lifebuoy, having at least one of the lifejackets fitted with a safety harness + having the harness safety strap itself per chance I had to do any work where I was at risk of falling overboard e.g. changing or clearing a prop etc. Since then these have been sorted.

He looked closely to ensure we both had crotch straps for the lifejackets, stressing how critical these were (fatalities having been recorded where they had slipped off) & how often they were overlooked etc.(we did have them having already been advised to do so). It appears that this is not listed and becomes a word of mouth issue however I may be wrong on this.

Safety Advisors although working to a set check list, appear to add and apply any relevant experience/tips/knowledge that they pick up within their own realms of experience which I feel makes each check slightly different and unique. As a consequence, I feel pretty sure that if you had you boat checked twice over the same weekend by two seperate advisors then different points would be noted.

It gets out of hand with suggestions of having liferafts on 15' & 16' fishing boats. We become at risk of accidents by falling overboard from tripping over all the safety gear if we are not carefull.

Yes the Honda 50 hp is carbs. There is no problem with cold starting as it usually fires and idles as smooth as a dream straight away from cold every time providing the bulb is primed well.

Just takes a little warming up before off, but has that blip/flat spot if given too much throttle from either warm or cold and can sometimes if too harsh, cut out.

Re stainless props: If you do frequent trail aways I would avoid them. If there is risk of unknown sea bottoms then you could well damage the gearbox shaft or casing if you bottom out. An alloy prop can be considered a type of fail safe, it will bend and break usually before the gearbox internals, usually around the

At first you may be a little dissappointed with the cold start performance of the 4 stroke, i.e. a short warm up period coupled with slower acceleration than the 2 strokes.

My Honda will also stall if I wap the throttle fully forward quickly, I have to be less aggressive on taking off than when I last had the 2 stroke. Don't know if other 4 strokes behave like this, I would be interested to know.

Once the engine loosens up, this will improve a bit. The advantages of the 4 stroke will far outweigh this e.g. better idling, quietness, fuel economy, low speed trolling ability etc, etc.

As with most 4 strokes it will take around 20 hours plus to loosen up enough to pull full revs. Try not to be too eager to get there during this period at first.

What you are doing in building up the revs gradually in varying length busts is right.

When you start coming close to max rev achievement, limit the periods of max bursts until it is fully loose.

During this period I would not advise playing around with prop pitches unless your existing one supplied is already known to be too high, as others have mentioned there may be a risk of undue strain on the engine.

Thanks for the info on the props, in particular on the likelyhood of straining the engine

The Honda 50HP is designed to pull 6000RPM max where it actually red lines.

The engine is actually governed at this figure and cannot in fact be over revved.

Given the right water conditions, both the 13" & the 14 1/2" props will pull max revs with relative ease. I am still playing about with both these props & keep swapping from one to another.

I find that in smoother sea conditions the 14 1/2" is in fact actually achieving better fuel econony than the std 13" however when there is a good chop the 13" gives better results.

Neither of these actually seem to load the engine too much, however the 14 1/2" needs patience and a more gentle approach on acceleration to avoid excessive loading.

Its about time they developed a fool proof snap on and off system for props, so as you could just pop the right one on relative to the conditions and the amount of steaming you intend to do for the day.

I had the exact same dilemma early last year, repair an old engine (2 stroke 70HP) at vast expense or replace it, again at vast expense.

I took the plunge, borrowed the money and got Warrior to put on a New Honda 50hp.

For

I would do my best to avoid buying anything with a Force engine.

When they were imported into the UK they had to bring in 2 to get 1 good one.

They are very thirsty and not well engineered.

Hi,

The traingular/with small circle has in fact two important functions.

The one that has been mentioned i.e.:

It is a stopper to allow the recovery buoy to stop short of your hull so as not to bounce against it which is very annoying when sitting at anchor.

The other far more important function is to maintain the bouy at an important distance away from your hull (I find that around 20' is about ideal) so as when you are ready to steam past it you can clearly see the ropes trail, thus you can very easily avoid running over rope with your prop and getting it tangled. If the buoy is actually next to your hull this becomes far more difficult.

This by far being one of the most dangerous mishaps that can happen when using the Alderny method as there is nothing worse than an anchor rope catching around your engine leg & dragging your back end down.

When I am about to drop anchor I hold up the large circular ring up as high as possible using it as a guide for my chain and rope which keeps it clear of the hull. When the anchor hits bottom I then attach my buoy to the large ring by way of a large stainless snap link attached to a short rope on tied onto my buoy.

I then actually lift my engine clear of the water with the trim button and then let out all the slack anchor rope.

I lift the engine clear to avoid any chance of drifting my prop over the loose rope before it has chance to settle & sink.

Nobody else seems to mention doing this, but I actually find it essential as the tide can soon pull the engine over the rope.

When enough rope is considered out I attach the triangular stopper by pushing a loop on the rope thru' the small loop then bringing it right back over the triangle. I then let out another 20' of rope or so.

Using a bouy also has the added advantage of telling other boaters nearby that you are actually at anchor.

These are actually excellent kits from Crayside marine and well worth the expense.

I certainly have not looked back since buying one, well worth it.

Their web site actually gives out the procedure for anchor recovery using this method.

Another thing I tend to do slightly differently when recovering is that once I have steamed past the bouy and the anchor entually reached the surface (miles behind when anchoring at depth) is to turn my boat at right angles to the 'way off' buoy, keep the engine running so as I can maintain it at right angles to the bouy.

This I do again to absolutely minimise the risk of the rope coming aroung the stern and tangling with the engine leg. Again, its surprising how quickly this can happen in a running tide.

Hope this is of help.

For anyone interested in comparing prices, service, speed etc on all ADSL providers, check out the following site:

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/isps/compare.asp

Thanks for the info.

I was wondering what the compramises may be over the more expensive Garmin 182C which has been mentioned/reviewed earlier.

Plenty to ponder over.

Malc

Would suggest the Hansson Coastal pack.

They come in their own container and and quality looks good. If you shop around are round the

Try:

http://www.billhigham.co.uk

Malc

Have any of your readers any experience with this low cost unit?

Malc

Heard the same myself prior to fitting the nylon rollers so was a little worried.

A guy when I was in Indespension, explained to me the following:

The keel of the boat is by far the most resiliant & supportive section of the boat.

As most boats tend to be around 700kgs or more (in particular Warriors) and supported by their keels on rubber rollers most of the rubber in fact compresses anyway. In particular on worn or older rollers the keel is almost locked solid to the rollers centre steel spindle with little give or cushoin between the two anyway. There is still some give in the nylon, with still some cushioning which will end up practically the same anyway.

By far the most important is to ensure that the rubber side supporting rollers are correctly set up to support in relation to the keel rollers so they don't end up with too excessive a stress load in weaker areas of the hull, or that the hull does not bounce about too much from side to side.

Malc

First of all, apologies if you have already covered this.

Outfit is Warrior 150 with the unbraked roller coaster rated at 750kgs.

Last year I decided to replace the trailer tyres (6years old I think as they were the trailers originals) although the tread pattern was still quite deep as the walls were showing their age and I wanted the comfort factor of new tyres every 4 years or so.

Although the tyres were commercially rated they were only rated to 355kgs each -a total of 710kgs on the axle which is lower than the trailers carrying limit, plus a max inflation of less than 40psi.

Have towed caravans for around 20 years and have had the unpleasant task of motorway towing with a tyre failure. This happening with a tyre that visually looked in excellent condition but which was around 6 years old.

I always winter store on axle stands to prevent soft spots in the walls however it still happened.

My a**e went and I promptly adopted the Caravan Clubs Policy of renewing every 4 years or so even if visually sound or only part worn which I also now do on my boat trailer.

I managed to get 8 ply + commercially rated (just under 500kgs each) with a max inflation around the 60psi mark. Size is 12" & they were just over the

Fitting Keel band while on trailer isn't too difficult.

I used a trolley jack with long strong timbers to support, as not much lift is needed.

However you will need to move the boat backwards & forwards along the trailer so you can get at screw holes to drill and assemble.

Make double sure strap is left secured to stop the boat slipping off the back & also support the back to stop over balance (tipping).

KEEL ROLLERS

When I fitted my stainless band it very quickly started to knock hell out of the rubber keel rollers so I replaced them with nylon which I find excellent.

Far easier launch & winch back on (one handed), but more security at the front of the trailer is required in the way of additional straps or securing links to prevent the hull slipping backwards.

Malc

Anchor Bin.

I use one of the plastic circular tote type bins similar to what they sell at B&Q + hardware stores for around

Sand Skipper.

Yes your quite right, its not shown on their web site, which is why it took me a little time to source one at the time.

I got mine from the BOLTON store, however if you give any of the stores a ring they should be able to source one from head depot.

They are not cheap, I think mine was around

I made and fitted my own to my Warrior 150.

We are fortunate enough to have three laser cutting machines at work.

They were made from 3mm thick 316 stainless steel, cut from a 2500mm X 1250mm sheet.

Bending to shape is no problem as you go along with this thickness.

The keel was measured at 200mm intervals along its length as it has a taper from back to front. The programmer followed my sketch and the dimensions & hole positions worked out fine. One hole every 200mm or so. I was fortunate in that all the holes were laser cut to size so I just had to countersink to suit the screws.

Use quality countersunk head st/st screws no more than 19mm long (got the max screw length for Warrior)

To have one commercially made as a "1off" by laser cutting would be very expensive because of the set up cost, you really need a batch quantity to make viable.

You will need a high quality high speed steel countersinking bit, or a tungsten carbide if available to you.

Had to make mine in two pieces because the maximum we can cut at work is 2500mm long.

I would not recommend trying to make one by hand because of the taper.

I used a high quality combined marine adhesive and sealant (in a blue & white tube which I can't remember the name of), covering both the strip & filling the screw holes & scre threads. Forget silicon sealants, they won'y do the job. Yes I think it was silkoflex as per prev post

Good size pilot holes are required else you will snap the stainless screws.

If I had not the laser cutting facility at work I would have gone to Warrior.

Malc

Yes please, either post or email me at malc@coleherneuk.com (having to use works at the moment till I sort out a new broadband system).

P.S. anybody thinking on new broadband should check out www.asdlguide.org.uk which enables comparison of most of them - quite good.

Seemed to make it OK, sorry about the image size, however it does show the "Sand Skipper" with some detail.

However a big word of warning to all 4x4 owners!

No matter how good your 4x4 is: difflocks, large ground clearances, type of tyres etc., you could loose any of them if you move into an unsuspecting water table.

When launching on a beach you must assess vary carefully the nature of and where the water table ends, i.e. to explain:

The water table is the extent the water (sea) travels not just visibly over the top of the sand, but also below the surface of the sand.

On a lot of beaches (probably most) it is usually the same under the surface as you see visibly on the surface, especially on the deeper shelving ones.

However on quite a few of the more shallow shelving beaches the water table can extend quite far beyond the visible sea line, thus causing unsafe soft jelly like areas well in front where you would consider them to be a safe launching areas.

Some beaches in reverse however, have quite firm water tables at the waters edge and for a short stretch into the water (this usually causes a degree of over confidence in vehicle capabilities) but!!!!

I would always recommend the use of roping to recover the trailer from your 4x4 well clear of the water after first pushing out the trailer.

NEVER make the mistake of being over confident with a 4x4's capabilities on wet sand.

The North West and Nort Wales beaches have claimed many, many 4x4's (including one of mine) plus several tractors as well (yes even Tractors).

Up to now when pulling out, I have never had any "dig ins" using the spare on the "Sand Skipper", and when it hits an unsuspecting rock it either glances to one side or just bounces up and over, whereas even with a pneumatic jocky wheel you will still likely bend something (probably the stem) if you hit a rock.

1st attempt to upload said picture