Countryfile tonite on mackerel

[niggle]

Just watched it,and the mackerel haven't a chance one,just one processing plant in Scotland can and does process 800tons a day.Unfortunately I had a phone call so missed some,probably just as well,I find it short sighted.....

[gjb]

I hope if anyone seen this it is not the scottish boys in the wrong iceland and norway want the right to catch more and land it and sell it here ,mackerel is one fish that is on the increase and as my father comes from this part of scotland and i have family in the fishing up there i feel that it is not all correct with the fishing but so do they. They are sick to death of dumping dead fish then they sitting in the harbour with full quotas while the foreign boats land fish in our ports with no quotas

 

graham

[niggle]

Graham it was the foreign boasts landing fish,that was the point they were making

[gjb]

sorry one hot momment

graham

[biggcol]

It's a good job there are quotas as I don't think any fishery can support catches of 1000 tons in thirty minutes for very long. That was skipper John Bucan's ( I think that was his name) full quota in half an hour!! Now that is scarey!!!!

 

 

Colin

[petesnr]

I think you'd find it hard to produce evidence that mackerel are on the increase particularly in the English Channel--from my own experiences over 45 years of angling I can safely say that their are dramatically less mackerel now than in the past. There is some evidence that mackerel are being harvested at near sustainable levels in Scotland but the stocks are reduced historically and the methods used are questionable.

Catching entire shoals of migrating fish leaves an uneasy feeling that localised populations could be wiped out completely and indeed in the extreme case if overfishing began then entire stocks could crash as has happened with various species around the world.

In my view it makes no ecological sense to catch such vast quantities of fish at one time.

When is someone going to realise the lack of value of having most of the fish either in cans or in freezers? They certainly can't reproduce in that state.

Far better to take fish when they are not all in one place and vulnerable to population crash. Line fisheries or small seine net fisheries are unlikely to damage stock levels on their own.

Effects on the economy? If you base canneries and other industry on unsustainable practises then the job losses all come at once whereas getting rid of the big boys actually would create more opportunites for local artisanal fisheries and be far more likely to lead to stock increases.

 

Peter

[Graham Nash]

Whether we like it or not, ultimately there must be a demand for this sort of quantity of fish, otherwise it would not be financially viable to the big boys.

 

I don't pretend to know the answer, but if one is wishing to preserve stocks for the good of the species (and the food chain above it) then that is a good thing, if however they wish the stocks to be preserved so that we, the recreational angler have some sport left, that is probably not the right reason.

 

If the debate is the unfairness of the quota system then i fully agree that there should be a quota system, but it needs to be something more sensible than "dump all your dead catch so you don't exceed your limit".

[Rob]

 

The bit which bites me is the dumping of small \ less profitable fish from the hold when they hit a catch of more profitable fish!!!

[Mike Fox]

I am but a simple man (as many of you will know), but....

 

If 1 ton = 2,240 lb,

 

then 1,000 tons = 2,240,000 lbs

 

so, if the average mackerel was half a pound or so....

 

then one haul = 5,000,000 fish, in 30 minutes.

 

If there's a million sea anglers in Britain, then that's equivalent to 5 fish each, if we were all fishing together in the same 30 minute slot.

 

Now, forgive me for being simple.....but that was one boat. And it fishes until it's quota is gone. As do all of the other British and European boats it seems.

 

Then the Faroese and Icelandic boats take more, beyond quota.

 

Then all of the factory ships off the Western Approaches take more, beyond quota.

 

Does this explain why I can't seem to catch mackerel even in summer sometimes, and why haven't even seen a mackerel over a pound for about 10 years?

 

If this does go some way towards accounting for it, what practical steps can the Angling Trust take to make a difference ?

 

 

Mike

 

 

[duncan]

"Whether we like it or not, ultimately there must be a demand for this sort of quantity of fish, otherwise it would not be financially viable to the big boys."

 

sadly the economics are such that it's financially viable (marginal profit) processed as fertilizer or animal feed - which is not a whole lot different from growing plants to process as diesel fuel....

 

put another way there are a lot of different food chains out there, and increasingly these are unnatural and inefficient - being solely viable on current position (taxation/subsidy/whatever)

[gjb]

I think that like the rest of the food producers its big or not at all, milk 600 cows or more not worth doing other wise they are now going for herds of 6000 cows ,chickens , eggs, firms like tesco tell them how much they will earn per unit and all because we want cheap food its us the consumer they are trying to keep happy so they fish, farm and do what ever to cover these needs not a easy way out

 

graham

 

[biggcol]

"

 

sadly the economics are such that it's financially viable (marginal profit) processed as fertilizer or animal feed - which is not a whole lot different from growing plants to process as diesel fuel...."

 

Planting of crops is totally controlled by man.

 

 

Large herds of animals are totally controlled by man.

 

 

The wiping out of complete breeding shoals of wild fish is totally controlled by man.

Edited November 8, 2010 by biggcol

[petesnr]

One of the problems from the recreational angler's point of view is that a sustainable commercial fishery is viable at a stock level that leaves few big fish and the remaining little fish spread thinly.

The reality is that every time the scientists put forward proposals for sustainable quotas the commercial sector use their political muscle to get them watered down.

'Sustainable' fishing of an already depleted stock leads to ecological impoverishment and runs the risk of natural fluctuations in recruitment leading to stock crash which benefits no one.

It's no good expecting the Angling Trust to be able to work miracles on our behalf. The vested interests in the commercial sector are always likely to have more clout with the decision makers. The Angling Trust is representing us at government level so our voice is being heard and with persistence the contribution that therecreational sector is making to the debate is being recognised.

Reform of the Common Fishery Policy is looking at less destructive methods of fishing and downsizing of fleets and the British fishermen want regulation devolved to local committees. There will be increased pressure on inshore waters from the under 10metre fleet but if offshore activity is better controlled then migratory stocks should improve for all.

Hears hoping.

 

Peter

[pirky]

Trouble is that we are a world of selfish, lazy and greedy individuals who waste and/or store (often until we waste) far more than we need.

 

This is what makes the "market "so large and the excesses so viable.

 

Even as I chat......i realise I have a fridge and a freezer with about half the contents that will either frost or rot to the point where I will dump it.

 

There was a programme on tv the other week where chefs created a banquet out of food that was being dumped by supermarkets ...... the "sell by" dates on food is a con that encourages waste.

 

We as hunter / gatherers used to store food for seasons. Now it is days !!

 

Commercial interests and financial gain have led us down the path of a death by a thousand cuts .... the way back is a slow and arduous one and no one wants to make the first step on that path so it is now all about short term "solutions" that "appear" to address the issues........ ointment on a rotting / infected wound. The problems still fester on !!

 

OOps sorry ..... got carried away a bit there !!

 

Mackerel definitely not as abundant as when I was a kid .... nor as big !!

 

Dave

[duncan]

the problem with downsizing fleets is that this has no effect on the take - efficiency gains in deep water trawling over the last 10 years have been astronomical.

 

you actually need to make such fishing effort uneconomical at the current stock levels through rigorous enforcement of combined selective quotas and TAC to reverse the cycle, but even this isn't going to work with species that migrate or spawn in 'international waters'.

 

the lower/middle part of the food chain needs drastic attention, and would probably be the fastest route to some recovery in the 'UK waters'

 

the only successful implementations I have seen are Norway/Iceland and some aspects of the US fisheries and they seem allied to draconian measures and policing!

 

as to economics - I would hazard an estimate that the combined economic elements of PBSBAC and Poole Dolphins members boat and fishing expenditure with the added contribution from the Poole Charter fleet significantly exceeds the landed catch value of the poole commercial white fish fishery (although this is rather a poor comparison as it lands fish caught all over the place!)

 

as someone has already pointed out it's politics rather than economics now.

[great white]

 

Did anyone see Extreme fishing last night?

 

Most of the show I quite enjoyed for a change [by ignoring the presenter] and would have loved to swap places with Robson for a few casts at those exciting fish inshore or by the Chimney wreck.

 

But I could not get my head around why he had to walk through piles of rotting fish at the beach market. sure it was one of the poorest countries in the world but I find it hard to believe that that stuff was for human consumption. we would not use it for ground bait.

 

sorry to side track the thread

Charlie

 

 

[Paul J]

It's an entertaining show, it's just that nobson green is so annoying and such a crap angler

 

PJ

[biggcol]

I would use anything in my ground bait. Ask Pete Snr, i've impressed him a few times with the smells coming from my bucket!!!!

[petesnr]

Biggcol has a degree in smelly groundbait making!

Incidentally the fish in the market are probably being sun-dried so that they keep longer. No doubt this creates a monumental stench. As usual Robson did not give us enough information. This week's programme was the only one that has made me green with envy as he cast his enormous surface poppers towards the Chimneys. But why our sport has to be represented by such a pollock sorry pillock I do not know. His ideas on playing a fish could be written on a postage stamp.

Come back Jack Hargreaves all is forgiven (or maybe not).

 

Peter