Oli Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 As a few of you know, since purchasing the Arvor 250, we've occasionally had a problem whereby water runs inside to the cabin and collects on the cabin floor. Needless to say the first time this happened, on our maiden voyage, we were more than a little alarmed, however with time we realised that this is only an intermittent problem, and only occurs when we have rough weather, suggesting the hole or crack is above the waterline. The boat is still under warranty, but we have to find the hole to get it fixed - so my question is how? We have around a year left on the warranty, so intended on having a boat surveyor to give her a checkup before that expired so we could get any problems fixed, but having never used one before - are unsure if this is the sort of thing they would look for? As recommended by the supplier, Essex Boatyards, we have run a hose all over the bow (where the water seems to enter) and found that the bow porthole was leaking and of course thought we'd solved the problem by sealing this shut with silicone. It was only months later when we went out in rough weather again that we realised this hadn't cured the problem. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this soon, as it's pretty unnerving when water starts seaping in mid-channel! Thanks all in advance. Oli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Assume you have tested that it is salt water leaking in? Don't assume!!!! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisE Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure whether this will work on your Arvor but on a yacht the traditional way to find a troublesome leak is to dry the bilge/floor/sole/etc then put talc down and see where any water tracks lead back to. Edited February 1, 2011 by ChrisE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 ChrisE beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) As Rob said, is it seawater or fresh? If fresh: Do you have a fresh water tank onboard? If yes, could it be overfull and the motion of the boat causing it to come out of the breather? Edited February 1, 2011 by Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Thanks for such quick replies guys. Definitely salt water. The fresh water tank is on the port side, under the deck and about half way along the length of the boat and the water seems to come in on the starboard side up at the front the cabin and then trickle down on to the seat and on to the floor where it collects in a puddle by the toilet door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) Any deck fittings in the area? Like: Pullpit, Cleat, Anchor locker hinges, Bollard etc. Edited February 1, 2011 by Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Oil - taste is to be sure - you could have rain water building up and you dislodge it in rough weather!!!! be sure be sure be sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 where it collects in a puddle by the toilet door. Hmmm so it's not freshwater you think its sea water but it might just be p*** oh dear forget I suggested that but don't do what Rob suggests and taste it Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Didn't think of that Martin - it does come in next to the toilet too! Rob, would you mind being our taster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!!! But in a word Oli - NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 the traditional way to find a troublesome leak is to dry the bilge/floor/sole/etc then put talc down and see where any water tracks lead back to. I done that to her indoors............. Tomo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjb Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Could you mix some vegtable dye in water and see where it comes out graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wight Magic Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Oli the few problems with water getting in i have had on Wight Magic are both sky lights needed resealing Also if she is stood for alongesh time the roof space has a gap and condensation builds up witch stays forward until you get going then it goes back to where the cables run down by the helm position and run into the cockpit Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted February 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Thanks Dave, interesting that you have it too - Neal advised that he also knows a couple of people who have had water come in when the boat flexes and eventually needed to have the joint fibreglassed from the inside to stop it. I'm really keen to get this resolved while still under warranty - does anyone know if this is the sort of thing that a boat surveyor would find? Graham, the problem is I can't seem to make water come in myself - it's only when we're ploughing through some fairy rough seas that we actually get anything come in, but it's quite a bit when it does... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mw Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 I had the same thing on a 215 I went around with a culk gun on the windows and any place it could get in I had essex boats down twice they didnt find it ,it would fill the front shelf and when you got onto the boat you could see the water run down into the cabin . I took a large torch into the boat at night and get a mate out side to see if the light came through no luck so I gave it back to essex boats good luck mark w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjb Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 I know at odd times i have water drip from where the handrail bolts are inside from the bow graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Oli As someone who has had the engine out due to damage caused by an undetected water leak, I feel that I should not really offer advice But as you are being very sensible and trying to get it in Warranty {unlike me ]I will. I second Chris's idea about teh talk we used int many times in the Navy and if necesarry the food dye idea, but there may be other areas to check. When I first launched I had water ingress under the deck, found to be coming back through the elec bilge pump. fitting a non return valve in the discharge line has fixed it. It is very common for skylights and windows to leak, also condensation lying in pockets untill rough weather moves them. Only last week at work ,we had a surveyor taking pictures of a new leak detection device in use, I am sure I put his card somewhere safe, if you want his details let me know, his evidence should be enough to get a warranty repair. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 HI Oli Can't remember if we have talked about this yet, but a common fault on the Arvor 250AS is a leaky bow thruster tunnel. MANY of them have been known to leak around the join from the tube to the GRP. Any below the water line leak would have me start looking there. It shows itself in various ways, usually they just drip drip drip all the time, others may only show up when pounding through waves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted February 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hi Tom, We did talk about this, but it's dry down there, and the bilges are dry all the time too so I'm pretty sure it's above the waterline. Charlie, skylights and windows have been checked - we did have one which was leaky so we thought we'd found the problem. As it was never used we totally sealed it with silicone. Nothing now comes in there but unfortunately we still have the problem. The surveyor sounds ideal - I was thinking we should really have a full boat survey done before the warranty expires so we can get anything fixed, is it the sort of thing a surveyor should find? Any idea what such a service costs? Thanks again all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 A full hull survey will be iro of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I do not like the sound of that last one Tom. or the leaking Bow Thruster tube. Oli the guy who came here with the instrument last week taking photo's was Ken Hawes of Class instrumentation Ltd 07970 617513 or 020 8333 2288 He is from up your way but should be worth talking to to see if he had a local surveyor using his kit Good luck and I hope you find the leak. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I live with a number of leaks - fortunately it's a boat so gets on with water reasonably well More constructively (I hope) 1. beware that the leak and the transport system can be quite different - for example you may have a lot of water getting into the anchor locker (normal but hopefully not too much hitting the windlass unless you wash it off with fresh each time); but this water then wickes it's way down the cables and finally drips off an appropriate bend 2. all and any screws or bolts into the fibreglass are suspect. If they weren't screwed into calk/mastic then they will be a source of a leak. Only takes one and the best test (assuming you can get to the inside) is to put a ring of coloured talc around the inside of every one. 3. as Tom highlights, the hull/deck is normally stapled together with SS staples (big!) with calk and then a covering/strake. This can leak but is less common than might be initially suspected. 4. deck drains can leak 2 ways - the seal between the deck and drain, and the drain outlet and it's attached pipe. If the latter the liquid will run along the pipe (sometimes a long way!) before dripping off. 5. Hatches - obviously 6. Windscreen - this can lead anywhere - with a built in headlining it's easy for the water to run a long way. 7. Windscreen washer system? Fresh water can become salty through flowing over salty fittings or a build up of salt anywhere - but in one sense it doesn't matter if you are only getting it when running in some sort of sea (although if you are NOT getting it sitting still in heavy rain it probably rules out a lot of the above. My money would be on the cable runs from an anchor windlass - just about everything else will leak from heavy rain. Sealing around the anchor beak underside as well. Obviously all this assumes it's not from hull skin fittings. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted February 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Duncan, absolutely brilliant - thank you so much for taking the time to write all of that. Now I've just got to get down to Poole again to go through it all thoroughly. Thanks for the number Charlie, I'm going to give him a shout. Will report back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codpiece Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Oli, dry stack the boat, fill it full of water and see where it pours out. sorry. derek, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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