Wire Cable Advice Please

[jerry.shutter]

Hi guys,

 

I have had problems with my anchor retrieval since I had my boat. When it arrived it had a swivel attached to the end of the chain which was attached directly to the anchor, this came in beautifully every time. However I obviously wanted to have a trip on the anchor, so I got rid of the swivel and attached the chain to the front/top of the Bruce anchor with a shackle and cable tied it at the “shank” which I have done before and it’s worked well.

 

What happens is the anchor touches/hits the bow roller first which trips it, unless an unlucky crew member hangs over the front, with moving winches, and falling in a high probability.

The chain needs to run along the bottom/belly of the anchor and not along the top/spine so the chain is in the bow roller. Sorry it’s difficult to explain.

I have been advised by the boat builder some time ago, that having wire cable instead of chain can help and put me in touch with a chap in Dover who had the same problem and this has fixed it, I cannot see how it will but going to try.

 

My question is!!! Should I put nylock nuts on the SS clamps after the thimbles in the photo.I will measure distance and tighten with torque wrench for 10mm SS wire but concerned they might work loose being bounced about.

I have photos of the boat in Dover but cannot download sorry.

[Coddy]

Have a word with Alan Green as he had similar problem with his anchor but he made up a rope version of your cable.

 

Dave

[Steve S]

I have the exact same problem Jerry. I now have the chain painted at the stop point and hand haul the last 0.5m. Something of a minor nuisance and need to keep an eye in the waves so not ideal.

 

I tried a few different means of fixing but nothing worked, the chain always is above the anchor as it comes over the roller.

 

Very interested to find a solution, do let us know how you get on.

 

Yes use nylock nuts to hold the cable ends, I would add loctite as well to be sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve S]

Thinking about the steel cable idea, the cable will be able to run closer to the anchor arm so there will be less distance ( leverage) for the roller to work on to break the cable ties so might be enough to do the trick.

 

BTW, For the trip I use a few turns of thin rope knotted, the winch can break it but only with effort, I only want it to trip as a last resort. It's a 15kg anchor and a heavy boat, cable ties just won't cut it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mw]

Hi Jerry

I have the same problem will be looking out to see if you can make it work I have a free fall winch but have had a couple of problems so no longer use it good luck

mark

[jerry.shutter]

I am glad I am not the only one, but sorry you are all suffering the same problem.

 

I have sent Martin the pictures of the boat in Dover, hopefully he can post the pictures.

 

The Dover skipper assures me it has helped him 100% EXCEPT the SS wire rotted and he has lost a couple of anchors. But he now changes every few seasons and I think has got over the problem.

The 316 SS wire I ordered from Germany, why? I dont know really. My new torque wrench is 1/2 inch, and I then found the 13mm socket needed was only in 1/4 in my tool kit!!! All a learning curve.

Hopefully you will see that the swivel on the chain is still being used onto the wire.

I cannot finish the fixing of the wire because I want to measure against the anchor, 

even though I have the measurements of the anchor I want to SEE it.

This has bugged me ever since I have had my boat so I would be delighted if I can help others cure a problem.

Has any one tried or used metal cable ties or screw up circlips for break away fixings instead of cable ties. Your boat and mine I would imagine were a similar weight Steve so I listen with interest.

[Maverick Martin]

 

I think this can actually work, looks a good work around to me.

 

Click on the pictures to open then click on them up to twice more to zoom in then if on a pc you press control and move the central wheel on the mouse you can zoom in more

[2006holmwood]

 

 

that is the same set up on Nigels Lady V . except he  didnt fit the swivel.

Pete at Parkstone Yacht Club chandlers made it for him. 

[Wight Magic]

It looks a good idea you will have to let me know how you get on with it 

As I some times have the same problem 

Cheers Dave 

[mw]

I cant see how the swivel is fitted to the anchor but will wait to see how it works for you 

mark

[Steve S]

Some sort of cheap metal clips might work Jerry like a low quality s/s one would need to check the breaking spec and test it out . Would be a bit of a faff to fit but then would not often trip.

That 10mm stainless wire you have must be pretty flexible, I have some about 10mm off Mike Fox's old mast rigging I use as a mouse, there is no way that it will bend round that eye.

We just need to wait god knows how many weeks before you can try it out.

[sparky]

Looks good Jerry, it would save anybody on my boat having to go up front to lift anchor into boat, will be watching with interest !

Thanks ,  Mick

[Maverick Martin]

1 hour ago, Steve S said:

Some sort of cheap metal clips might work Jerry like a low quality s/s one would need to check the breaking spec and test it out . Would be a bit of a faff to fit but then would not often trip.

That 10mm stainless wire you have must be pretty flexible, I have some about 10mm off Mike Fox's old mast rigging I use as a mouse, there is no way that it will bend round that eye.

We just need to wait god knows how many weeks before you can try it out.

 

If you zoom in on pic 2 you will see the steel cable is held in place at the head of the anchor with cable ties so no clips of any kind needed.  You just need to make sure that the shackles are moused.

 

I agree with you re the bending of 10mm stainless wire, will wait to see how easy it is to do.

[gaffa]

Question but  maybe I've already answered it ?

 How would  you guys deal with getting a dangling tripped anchor  reset and re positioned back on the bow roller?

 

Firstly I guess you'd have to lean over the bow roller and heave it onto the deck. This would mean you would need to leave more length of chain between the windlass/gypsy and the anchor  by not lifting it fully and giving yourself enough spare to grab hold of and manhandle.

 

15Kgs is a hell of a weight to lift at the best of times let alone when your hanging over the bow roller.

 

Without a windlass the Alderney ring method supports weight of anchor until you have to do the final straight lift over the gunwhale much easier than bent over the bow roller.

Do you use a flying gaff  hook to lift the anchor from the bow and straighten the lift ?

[jerry.shutter]

Unfortunately we have had to haul about 4m of chain and a 15kg anchor onboard reasonably regularly, not the best idea but saves going to the gym😖

[Steve S]

Well I have about 4ft of thin floating rope attached to the end of the anchor shank with a loop on the end. When tripped (I usually know when it's popped the trip) with the anchor still in the sea (saves it banging again the hull) I use a boat hook to hook the loop and raise the rope up to the boat, then with the thin rope in hand I pass it over the bow roller. Using the windlass to recover the chain and me pulling on the rope I can ensure the shank comes over the roller. With the anchor now resting on the boat a new trip can be tied. Doing this with a 15kg is no problem as the windlass takes most of the weight.

When I first started using this method I thought the thin rope might tangle with everything but it never has.

When it's rough it adds to the fun hooking the rope .

[jerry.shutter]

That makes a lot of sense Steve.

This is how far I have got, putting the thimble in was tricky and bending the wire was a bit of a grunt, luckily the wife’s good with grips!

You have to do the nuts equal pressure, I unfortunately broke one clip by going one turn to many instead of exactly alternating. I also found another socket set for the torque wrench. I am meant to tighten to 45lbs on the wrench but have not got there, you can see how compressed the wire is and I did not want to break or damage more SS fittings!!

[mw]

On the photo they use what looks like a crimp if use broke one of the clamps  with a wrench

makes you wonder how strong they are 

mark

[Wight Magic]

The feruel on the other picture looks better as with the u bolts you have the ends sticking up which might get snagged still looking on with interest 

Dave 

[sparky]

41 minutes ago, Wight Magic said:

The feruel on the other picture looks better as with the u bolts you have the ends sticking up which might get snagged still looking on with interest 

Dave 

Looks like some of your " special"

Pirks Dave!😄

[jerry.shutter]

I read up about all the various crimps/clamps fixings and these I am using were quite a way above the crimps for strength. I agree the crimps are much prettier and if built by a professional probably stronger than mine!!!

[gaffa]

Quote

Well I have about 4ft of thin floating rope attached to the end of the anchor shank with a loop on the end. When tripped (I usually know when it's popped the trip) with the anchor still in the sea (saves it banging again the hull) I use a boat hook to hook the loop and raise the rope up to the boat, then with the thin rope in hand I pass it over the bow roller. Using the windlass to recover the chain and me pulling on the rope I can ensure the shank comes over the roller. With the anchor now resting on the boat a new trip can be tied. Doing this with a 15kg is no problem as the windlass takes most of the weight.

When I first started using this method I thought the thin rope might tangle with everything but it never has.

When it's rough it adds to the fun hooking the rope .

 

Seems to be the best practical solution Steve

Hooking the rope may be made a little easier if you attached a small ringed buoy to it. At least itt would give you something to aim at 😁

[Stuie]

My father worked on Hull Docks - he was  able to splice wire and insert eyes - quite a specialist art...

[2006holmwood]

23 hours ago, 2006holmwood said:

 

 

that is the same set up on Nigels Lady V . except he  didnt fit the swivel.

Pete at Parkstone Yacht Club chandlers made it for him. 

Pete used crimps and they have not failed yet .

[Ian.Jones]

I’m a bit late getting to this one but I will add my experience it it helps.

 

On my 23’ Grady White, I had a wire strop made by a yacht rigger using stainless cable that would normally be for mast stays. This was heavy duty, with a loop crimped at each end, and made slightly longer than the anchor and looked very neat. One loop was shackled to the hole at the rear or the anchor, and the other loop was secured to the swivel which connected to the chain/rope rode. The front loop was then tied to the front of the anchor so that the strop was slack and the weight was on the tied connection.

 

like Steve, I did not use cable ties as they degrade over time and fail when you are not expecting it - I used thin binding chord and added extra turns until I felt it was right. 

 

The bottom line was that when I needed to, I could break out the anchor connection using the weight and power of the boat, but after 10 years it never failed in normal service, broke out when required, the strop was as good as new, and I never lost an anchor. In fact it worked so well that I would often anchor in known rocky areas with confidence that I would get my gear back. 

 

Stay safe everyone. 

 

Ian