Adam F Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Keel band Finally got round to fitting it this afternoon with the help of Gordon. 50 x 4mm nylon length was kindly donated by Wedger. This was offered up to the keel, tacked in place and marked at the taper with a black marker pen. It was then clamped to a sheet of MDF and trimmed with a jigsaw to the correct size. We then offered it up, marked the 2 screw holes and fabricated a few 'dead men' to hold her in position nice and snug. Cleaned her up and then applied the Sikaflex - youre all right - it is a horrible messy product, fantastic at doing its job though! We then offered it into position, put in the 2 screws, wedged it tight and ran a bead of Sikaflex down each side for a seamed water tight transition between keel and nylon. Job done! Trim Tabs Having now decided not to change BW this year, I have decided to spend a few quid on her instead. Intregued by this months BFM article on the Nauticus Smart Tabs on the 165 I have done a bit of web research and ordered a set. One of the reasons I was thinking of changing the boat was a little more speed, more stability and a quicker hole shot - the tabs are reported to address all these issues. I couldnt find anyone on Google who sold them, but plenty in the states - including a guy who offers free P&P! They are on order and I will report on how they go. New Windows Lexan Margard due to be delivered this week, and fitting to begin ASAP - cant wait to be able to see again! Bargin price too - offcuts from Ebay - very helpful seller also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Adam, I will be interested in seeing how the trim tabs go, I was pondering over getting some for Neo, but still in two minds. I presume you have opted for the Nauticus smarttabs ( ie. The automatic ones ). My only concern is what if you touch bottom coming in to the run ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted March 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Question: Will I need Zinc annodes on the tabs? Obviously I am trailering her, but the short time she spends in the water, will this effect the tabs? If so how big, where from and where do I mount them? Paul: I should think that with the new Etec you wouldnt need them? I have bought them to improve lift when using the live bait tank or when I'm 4 up...will let you know though - hope to have them fitted by next Sun for the Shambles. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Question: Will I need Zinc annodes on the tabs? Obviously I am trailering her, but the short time she spends in the water, will this effect the tabs? If so how big, where from and where do I mount them? Paul: I should think that with the new Etec you wouldnt need them? I have bought them to improve lift when using the live bait tank or when I'm 4 up...will let you know though - hope to have them fitted by next Sun for the Shambles. Adam If they are actuated by electric motors directly through gearing then it might be an idea to protect them with an anode, sort of overkill though for a trailered boat. If they are actuated by hydraulic rams which have pressure produced by an electric motor and the supply of HP fluid to the ram is via rubber HP hose than there s no need to earth them out via an anode. Mad Mike PS I would not think there was any point on putting them on the Orkney in fact they might induce porpoising which is sommat you don't wanna do on porpoise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted March 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Mike, they are independant units; http://www.nauticusinc.com/smart_tabs.htm S/S tabs with Nitrogen actuators @ 60lb... No need for tabs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady jane Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 ACCORDING TO THE NAUTICUS MANUAL ZINC ANNODE MUST BE FITTED TO TAB IF UNIT IS TO BE USED IN SALT WATER! ANDY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady jane Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 caps lock again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Fit them for peace of mind Adam, but seeing as the boat is only ever in the water for a few hours a week as opposed to 24/7 plugged into shore power in a busy marina with cr@p wiring you will probably find the anodes last about 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Quote.....Mike, they are independant units; http://www.nauticusinc.com/smart_tabs.htm Clever little beggers aren't they! Not too expensive either and I can see how they would help a heavily loaded boat up on the plane. As for anode protection now Iv'e seen what they are I think it would be a total waste of time and money. The boats that need protection are the ones at rest in relativly still salt water like a marina. The manufacturers will say an anode should be fitted to protect their interest from spurious warrantee claims. Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 There is a dealer who sells the smart tab here, if you goto the smarttab website they have the contact details. If you visit iboat forums the person who make them (but not sell them) will answer any questions you have. His name is NauticJohn and he' very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oysterboats Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 are there any problems with import duty on the tabs from the states Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Only if the Vat man catches you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted March 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 I actually found a guy in Aldershot who sells them - he was a little dearer than the seler in the states, but I get them next day and dont have the haste of an over seas purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamouse Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Hi Adam, Only reservation I've got on trim tabs is that they heavily clutter up the back of the boat. I get enough grief from the odd lively fish wrapping the line around the Z step. Add a pair of stainless tea trays into the equation and you could spend quite some time knitting. That said, I'll be very interested to see how you get on with them. If my new boat shares the 165's tendency to porpoise at full speed then trim tabs might be a good move... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Just a thought.... You mention that the boats are porpoising at high speed... What sea conditions does this happen in and how is the leg of the outboard trimmed? I know a lot of you guys are very skilled helmsmen so my guess may not be correct and the old trim tabs could be the answer, but by timming the engine back in just a smidge should stop the porpoising. On a lot of boats you can find that a little bit of swell coupled with a fractionally over trimmed engine will induce porpoising. On the other hand, trim tabs may well be of benefit to drop the nose a little more in a head sea and help prevent slamming. And before Duncan jumps in I know trim tabs are not supposed to be for longtidutinal trim, but on a small boat they really help when weight distribution effects the boats ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toerag Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 I have disc anodes on the upper surfaces of my stainless tabs and they last a season. As you're not sure, put anodes on and if they don't dissolve then don't bother replacing them. You can never have too many anodes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamouse Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 You mention that the boats are porpoising at high speed... What sea conditions does this happen in and how is the leg of the outboard trimmed? Hi Tom, I confess to usually running slightly too much trimmed out but even fully trimmed in, on a flat sea or a very long swell the 165 seems to want to porpoise at or above 25 knots. It isn't a bad problem, just a gentle rise and fall. Does tend to unsettle the innards after a few miles though. Doelfins cure it (on a 150) though I'd rather avoid them if I can. Seems to be a common finding with both 2 stroke and 4 stroke fitments. As I said, for my chaotic style of multirod knitting, any extra gubbins around the stern are just one more thing to get a line under or around and any sharp edges will play havoc. However, the press and Warrior themselves are being very positive about the benefits of trim tabs so it'll be interesting to hear whether they transform Blue Warrior. Launching ain't a problem for us Langstone softies with our steep slip and all-tide deepwater access, half of the time there's not even much real need to lift the outboard leg during recovery . Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady jane Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 by adding tabs does it not cause any problems if you have to reverse ? andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 by adding tabs does it not cause any problems if you have to reverse ? andy DIVE OFF CLAXON!!! Close hatches and watertight doors!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted March 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Reversing is apparently not a problem with them as far as I can tell. Steve - new boat, pray do tell....a Pro Angler is it? Yes, they will clutter the transom, but I already have 2 transducers, a fixed step and a 500 GPH livebait pump on there and they cause no problems, so what the hell - anyway if they help the boats performance its something I can live with. I haven't bought them to stop porpoising - I don't suffer this. The 60 4/ I have struggles with 3 up or when the live tank is full to hit the hole shot quickly - OK with 2, but no 3....so I want it to help this, also the help with a slight list I get from having bigger crew than my slight 12 stone .... They arrive tomorrow, so will be fitted Weds. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Interestingly, I was toying with getting some to stop the boat porpoising at speed when the engine is trimmed out to any degree. ( I figure that they will help to lift the sterm and drop the bow without having to run with the engine trimmed in fully. ). I will get a better idea though once I have been out more than the three times I have managed since the new engine was fitted ! PS: Mystified why you would thing they would induce porpoising Mike ( all the claims made indicate the reverse ) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Quote....PS: Mystified why you would thing they would induce porpoising Mike ( all the claims made indicate the reverse ) If you want them Paul you get them mate, far be it for me to put you off. But in answer to your question........ Your and all the other Orkneys of that hull design as well as many similar hulls developed over hundreds of years for their carrying capacity and sea keeping carry their main buoyancy a'midships. This midships section is the fulcrum of the boats for and aft rotation. In other words there is less bouyancy at the bow and the stern, (note, less not none), The Orkney is a modified version to allow semi displacement and low end planeing speed. With the Warrior and similar hulls are on the other hand more of an oblong box with a sharp entry, their main bouyancy is spread throughout the hull except for the entry point at the bow. Therfore they have less 'rocker' and the fulcrum of their fore and aft rotation is spread over virtualy 100% of the wetted area. Thus if one adds lift to the stern of a craft with a fuller beam a'midships there is a tendancy as this craft moves through the water and waves for the craft to rotate back and forth around its fulcrum (Porpoising). This does not happen on the Warrior and other 'rectangulaly' shaped wetted area as there is little or no fulcrum. Any one wanting a demonstration and can spare a day or two please meet me at The National Phisical Laboratories in Teddington. Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Reversing isn't a problem as the plates are relatively small, no enough to drag the boat down , futhermore, one is only likely to reverse at low speed, unless you are planning to reverse the boat at 15 knots or so, it won't be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamouse Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Steve - new boat, pray do tell....a Pro Angler is it? Yup, some time in late April/early May if all goes well. Should be interesting to see whether the improvements outweigh the loss of deck space Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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