Mmsi Advice Please

[Guest Martin James]

I have just bought a new boat with a marine radio

and i wanted to change the mmsi number over to me the new owner

so i took the mmsi number from the radio and went on the itu web site

i did a search for the number but it came up unknown?

i bought through a marina so i can't contact the previous owner

can anyone advise me on the next course of action i should take!

thanks

Martin

 

[Coddy]

Hi Martin

 

If I understand it correctly the MMSI number is registerd to the boat and not the owner.

 

You need to contact the radio authority to advise them change of ownership, purchase an new radio licience and contact the coastguard on form SG66 wich is available on line at Coastguard CG66 Form

 

This should be all you need to do.

 

If the radio is from another craft, the original owner has changed his/her radio, then you will need to return the radio back to the manufacture for them to re-set the MMSI and you need to apply for a new number.

 

Now I might have this totaly wrong but have a word with your Coastguard or the radio authority and they will advise you.

 

Why not register on this forum and join in the banter and humor?

 

Regards

 

Coddy

[Adam F]

There is also a link somewhere (Mars?) where you can search for your boat and mmsi and it gives all the details.

 

Someone else will post it as Im in a hurry - but check here - it that draws a blank youll have to contact OFCOM who will arrange for a new one to be set up.

 

Adam

[Guest martin]

hi coddy,

the point i am trying to make is i have checked the mars database

and the mmsi number in the radio isn't registered to ANY vessel?

Martin

[plaicemat]

Does the number start with 235. If not, it is probably not a valid MMSI number and someone has just entered a randon number to see what happens. Alternatively, they have entered the number thinking it is correct, confirmed it, and discovered an error and couldn't be ar*ed to return it. Unfortunately, once confirmed on the radio, it cannot be changed without returning to the supplier/manufacturer. If it is a MMSI number, then your recourse, I believe, will be to OFCOM.

 

Terry B.

[sean]

This is the MARS url... http://www.itu.int/cgi-bin/htsh/mars/ship_search.sh

 

[TomBettle]

The advice that Coddy and Adam have given is pretty good and you will be able to get the radio re-set by returning it to the manufacturer.

 

I was interested to here that you bought the boat through a marina and so "couldn't contact the previous owner".

 

If you bought through a reputable dealer, broker, marina then you should have been given the boats title docs and history. One of the key docs will be a Bill of Sale for the previous owner to you. There will be a chain of Bills of Sale which will go through the boats ownership history to the first owner.

 

The Bill of Sale has full contact details written on it (address not tel #) and invariably there will also be service history, other docs supplied that have contact details too.

 

If none of this has been supplied then I would:

1) Ask the marina why not

2) Request that they get it for you

3) Take the hull number (etched, usually on the starboard quarter) and contact the manufacturer as they will have stored the orignal owners details

 

If you bought the boat with nothing but a receipt that says something like:

"Trade Sale with no warranties implied or given" and / or the marina said "we are having a clear out, do you want this cheap, we know nothing about it", then you may be stuck.

Even so you should be able to trace some of the history.

 

Your situation may be different, but I get so frustrated when people buy a second hand boat as if they are buying a second hand sofa and just part with cash, get given a hand written receipt and the keys.

 

On a more expensive boat, always try and get:

1) Chain of Title (All the Bill of Sale docs from the previous owner to you, down to the original one from the supplying dealer to the first owner

2) Builders Certificate supplied when the boat was newfrom the manufacturer

3) CE Certificate showing the boat has been built to CE regs / standards

4) Original owners purchase invoice showing VAT has been paid

5) A proper receipt for your own purchase to go with all of the above

6) Any history and other paperwork, however boring it looks relating to the boat

 

On a new boat, never accept it unless the supplying dealer provides 1 to 4 of the above.

On a used boat, you should be able get all of this if people have followed standard practise and been careful with their docs.

On a typical, cheaper, boat that you are buying with "throw away" money then take your choice and if no docs are provided then you are at least aware that there may be an element of risk to your purchase.

 

Final point:

If you have no info and you need to try and get some history your hull number will look something like this:

 

FR - IRI 001201A606

 

The details can be broken down as follow...

FR (usually stands for FRANCE)

IRI (???? Never worked that bit out????! )

001201 (The actual build number of the boat, ie: the 1201st of this model)

A606 (A is January, 6 is the year built and 06 is the year model)

 

Sorry not much help over sorting your radio, but IMHO, advice for anyone buying a boat to make sure they don't get fingers burnt or find unforeseen problems....

 

Tom

 

PS:

Good Luck getting it sorted Martin

[Guest Martin]

Hello Tom,

I bought the boat from a reputable boat dealer and i have an invoice and till receipt, the boat also has the build number moulded in the hull

inside the cuddy there is a plaque with the boats dimentions c e rating etc

the engine is he same year as the boat

the dealer allegedly bought the boat from the manufacturer from new

it has been sold twice and has always been kept at the mariner

the reason why i don't have the previous owners address is the dealer was acting as an agent so really i bought the boat off of them and for some reason the boat has never been named

does this sound ok to you?

Martin

 

 

 

 

[britboard]

how old is the boat?, because radio licence details are removed from ofcom databases after 2 years, if not renewed. This shouldnt cause a problem as they tend not to re-use mmsi numbers on the basis that the radio is probably still in circulation "somewhere".

 

quote from OFCOM :-

 

"A callsign is allocated to the vessel when first issued with a Ship Radio

Licence. It uniquely identifies the vessel within the International Maritime

Mobile Service. The callsign remains with the vessel for the duration of its

life regardless of changes of ownership or even vessel name. However the

callsign is surrendered if the vessel ceases to be classed as a UK vessel, is

destroyed or is unlicensed for a period of two or more years. Therefore every

effort should be made to ensure that the callsign remains with the vessel".

 

Maritime Mobile Service Identity (MMSI) numbers

 

1. A Maritime Mobile Service Identity (MMSI) number uniquely identifies a vessel

and is only issued to vessels fitted with Digital Selective Calling (DSC) and/or

Ship Earth Station (SES) equipment. The UK administration does not issue

MMSI numbers to EPIRBs.

 

2. If an MMSI has already been issued for use with DSC equipment and subsequently a satellite earth station terminal is installed, a new MMSI will be

required and DSC equipment will need to be re-programmed. The Radio

Licensing Centre issues MMSIs free of charge as part of a Ship Radio Licence.

 

3. The Agency notifies the ITU of all vessel MMSI numbers issued by the UK,

however it does not notify Portable MMSI numbers. MMSIs are also made

available to HM Coastguard to assist in Search and Rescue operations.

 

4. With the advent of VHF/DSC portable radios in 2001 Ofcom has set aside a

unique block of MMSI numbers which will be allocated only to this equipment.

This enables HM Coastguard to differentiate between alerts sent from fixed

and portable VHF/DSC radio equipment.

 

5. Portable VHF/DSC radios must on no account be programmed with vessel

MMSI numbers. HM Coastguard needs to be able to differentiate between the

types of equipment sending a DSC alert, as it is possible for the DSC alert from

a transportable radio to come from any vessel. The resulting search on the

database for vessel details may provide incorrect information that could jeopardise

a Search and Rescue operation. The Radio Licensing Centre will allocate

a

[Guest martin]

Thanks for that Simon L,

The boat is 4 years old and the radio is a simrad rd68.

I did manage to contact the boat dealer he has given me some conflicting information!

he informed me i have to apply for my own mmsi number then send the radio back to the manafacturer to be change! he also quoted YOU CANNOT USE SOMEONE ELSES MMSI AS THE INFORMATION IS ONLY RELEVANT TO THEM!

 

looks like i will have to contact ofcom to see if they can sort it out!

 

thanks to everyone for the advice

 

Martin

 

[Newboy]

He's selling you porky, mmsi stays with the boat, so if you press the red button, the signak lights up at the other end will be info about the registered vessel and not the radio unit.

[Maverick Martin]

He's selling you porky, mmsi stays with the boat, so if you press the red button, the signak lights up at the other end will be info about the registered vessel and not the radio unit.

Kam

 

Read the beggining of Simons post, I think you'll find it says exactly that

 

Martin

[TomBettle]

Hi Martin

 

Register on the forum. It's free, fun and full of guys who want to make sure we all do the right thing on the water.

 

Just being nosey (you will soon find out I am very nosey), what boat is it?

 

If the dealer was the original supplier of the vessel and then also the agent (broker) who sold it to you then he will have all the information and is oblidged to have forwarded it to you.

 

If, as you say, he has subsequently sold the boat twice you should have the following:

 

1) A Bill of Sale from him (the dealer) to the original owner, a Bill of Sale from the original owner to the next, a Bill of Sale from the next owner to you.

This is known as "Chain of Title".

 

2) There will definitely be a CE Certificate if the boat is CE plated as you say. This should also have been provided.

 

3) There will definitely be an Original Purchase Invoice, showing VAT as paid on the original sale.

 

4) There SHOULD be a Builders Certificate, showing the boat was built by the manufacturer and not a hull purchased for home completion. If it was home built there is nothing wrong with this, but the fact he was selling as a dealer originally shows it wasn't.

 

Originals of all of the above is what you are entitled to and he MUST give you them.

If, for whatever, ANY reason he cannot supply originals (usually the owner has lost them, which shouldn't happen if the documents importance is stressed on and over) then you are still entitled to CERTIFIED copies (stamped as certified copies) which at least gives comfort that the purchase / sale is all legitimate.

 

Personally, I would not have purchased the boat without the above, however not everyone is aware of the above. You are entitled to and the dealer must supply this information to you. If he can't and he didn't give any reason (I can't think of a reason why not as he has sold te boat throughout it's life) why he hasn't provided these docs then I would have very serious issues with him and would be thinking about having a little chat with him.

 

All IMHO, but as a broker and new boat sales guy I have a rough idea what a decent broker should provide.

 

Tom

[Guest martin]

Hello Tom,

first of all i would like to say thanks for your concern.

I did contact the dealer requesting outstanding documentation

the dealer said that he would look into it but never got back to me

I have also contacted the manafacturer a number of times and

found them next to useless aswell

to be honest with you i was unaware i should have been given all the documents

you have stated in your reply.

Allegedly the boat was a demo and was bought by the dealer from the manafacturer at the end of the london boat

that may explain why some of the documents are missing?

i don't really want to go into too much detail about the boat and dealer here

if you want to send me your email i will give you all the info i know

 

regards Martin

 

 

[TomBettle]

Hi Martin

 

I understand that you don't want to chat too much about it here on an open forum.

 

I am sure that there is a really simple solution to where the appropriate paperwork is and the dealer will find it if you give him a list of what is required.

 

You are welcome to email me at tombettle@southernmotorboats.co.uk or during working hours give me a call at the office. You can get my number by holding your mouse over the scrolling banner above at the top right of the page.

 

Sorry, didn't want to stir anything up when you asked a simple MMSI question, but you have a right to the appropriate title docs for your boat and any reputable dealer will supply them from the off, or give a good reason why they are still waiting for them.

 

Tom

[duncan]

theory and practice cross over a bit here!

 

Martin, If you do not have the actual Ships Radio Licence document, which goes with the disc that should be displayed, then quite frankly I wouldn't worry about it.

 

I believe that any Simrad dealer can change the MMSI number in a unit (you can check this easily enough) so I would apply for a new Ships Radio Licence for your vessel including a new MMSI number if you wish to use DSC. Then take this licence to a Simrad dealer and ask them to change the units number for you.

 

When writing to OFCOM for a new licence I would highlight the circumstances.

 

Note - it is entirely possible that the MMSI number is from a previous owner of the radio which was subsequently fitted to your boat before sale - not unknown!

[TomBettle]

"Martin"

 

Thanks for the email.

Happy to help.

Have sent you a reply asking a couple of questions. Please answer those and I will see what I can come up with for you.

 

All the best

Tom