Finding Neutral

[kaptin kod]

Having a small problem with the outboard (Mariner 60) when in neutral engine still pushing boat at about 2 knts ( haven't checked reverse yet). I know that the cables need adjustment to refind it, any one had experience with this and can recommend easiest way to find it ?.

 

Cheers

 

KK

[Newboy]

Have you try running it out of water with muffs and see if it's spinning in N? If it is, maybe the cable is sticking and you aren't really in N?

[duncan]

think I would start my investigation with the engine off and turning the prop by hand to see if it's in out of gear from time to time when indicating neutral.........however I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't know from feel if it was going into gear properly when you increased the throttle from the 2 knots your are experiencing or not

[Afishionado]

think I would start my investigation with the engine off and turning the prop by hand to see if it's in out of gear from time to time when indicating neutral.........

 

Yes but TAKE THE PLUGS OUT!!!!

 

Not only is it easyer to turn the engine via the prop, but less harmful if the little bugger sparkes and fires up for a split second.

The odds are you will cure it by adjustment to the cable end of the FNR leaver.

 

Mad MIke

[duncan]

not against safety Mike but surely you are not going to turnover a 60 hp outboard by trying to turn the prop by hand to see if it's in gear ie if it's in gear the prop just wont turn...........

[Afishionado]

not against safety Mike but surely you are not going to turnover a 60 hp outboard by trying to turn the prop by hand to see if it's in gear ie if it's in gear the prop just wont turn...........

With the plugs out there is very little resistance.

 

Mad Mike

[TomBettle]

Surely the point is that you want some resistance.

 

1) No resistance = In Neutral

2) Resistance = In gear

 

I am with Duncan on this one. You aren't putting loads of force or trying to turn the prop at speed as if you were getting a airplane engine started. You are simply feeling for resistance or not.

[Afishionado]

Surely the point is that you want some resistance.

 

1) No resistance = In Neutral

2) Resistance = In gear

 

I am with Duncan on this one. You aren't putting loads of force or trying to turn the prop at speed as if you were getting a airplane engine started. You are simply feeling for resistance or not.

Cor blimey some people!!

 

You put something like a length of stiff wire down a plug hole until it touches a piston head, rotate in gear until BDC is reached then attempt to get neutral by gear shift on the cabel control. Any movement on the wire when the prop is rotated will show that the prop is not in neutral Doh!

 

Mad Mike

[duncan]

all that effort - come on!

 

just apply pressure to the end of a prop blade - if it can be moved through 120 degrees it's in neutral - if it locks really really solid it's not going into neutral.

[Afishionado]

all that effort - come on!

 

just apply pressure to the end of a prop blade - if it can be moved through 120 degrees it's in neutral - if it locks really really solid it's not going into neutral.

You'll have fixed several O/B's gear adjustments then Duncan?

 

You do it your way, I'll do it my way.

 

Mad Mike

[TomBettle]

all that effort - come on!

 

just apply pressure to the end of a prop blade - if it can be moved through 120 degrees it's in neutral - if it locks really really solid it's not going into neutral.

You'll have fixed several O/B's gear adjustments then Duncan?

 

You do it your way, I'll do it my way.

 

Mad Mike

Mike

 

You must admit that your way is a hell of a lot of effort compared with simply turning the prop....

[Afishionado]

What's the effort? You would be foolish to try and turn the prop with the engine still capable of firing as a cylinder went over TDC. It is very hard to turn the engine over via the prop without taking the plugs out anyway.

I just don't get what you two are on about so I'll leave you to it.

 

Mad Mike

[Newboy]

Will a 4 stroke start by just turning the prop even with the ignition off? I've been told 2 stroke might.

[Afishionado]

Will a 4 stroke start by just turning the prop even with the ignition off? I've been told 2 stroke might.

Half as likely but still a possibility.

 

Mad Mike

[britboard]

Yes, any engine could potentially start if enough combustible material is present within the firing chamber, a diesel will run on cooking oil which is not very flammable until it is very hot in an open atmosphere, but placed under the compression applied by a piston engine there is a small chance of ignition from waste oil/fuel sitting in the cylinders.

 

It is a remote possibility, but better to remove the risk by removing the plugs and releasing the compression.

 

I have in my time seen engines that have completly destroyed themselves by using there own engine oil as fuel. You can remove the plug caps, turn off the fuel and they will go into freefall and rev themselves to death the only thing to do is to open the throttle full and drown the engine with air something which goes against your every instinct. By this time the whole workshop has gone into panic and the trainees are running for their lives.

 

Simon L

[Afishionado]

Quote.....Yes, any engine could potentially start if enough combustible material is present

 

At last some one who knows what he is talking about!

 

Mad Mike

[TomBettle]

I take the point about the possibility, but the chances are so incredibly slim with the battery isolator off, the kill cord out.

 

All you are doing is feeling for a little resistance not trying to "spin" the prop in the way you might start a plane engine.

 

I have never seen a single marine engineer go to the trouble of removing plugs on any boat be it a 2.5 hp aux or a 1200Hp MAN engine, just to establish if it is in gear.

 

It is a different story if they are actively working around the prop (ie removing it), then it is 100% insured that the boat is in neutral.

[britboard]

Now - Now boys!

 

This isn't game of "my opinions better than yours" the advice you give to anyone should be the safest you can possibly give, not the quickest route, i might take the lazy route myself, but i know my way around an engine and its my fingers not somebodys elses. I have no idea of what other peoples knowledge levels are and as such would only offer the safest method.

 

Follows is a quote from a 4stroke engine manual. (Marine, Not Aircraft)

 

"To prevent accidental engine starting, remove (and isolate) spark plugs leads & Plugs from engine before working on propellor"

 

If they feel it needs to be said, there must be a reason, the chance might only be a billion to one, but somebody has to win the lottery and the odds are about the same.

 

Simon L

[Fugazi]

I'm still going to take the plug out of my rotary lawn mower before I clean it up for winter storage.

 

Just in case,

Gordon H

[Maverick Martin]

Now - Now boys!

 

This isn't game of "my opinions better than yours" the advice you give to anyone should be the safest you can possibly give, not the quickest route, i might take the lazy route myself, but i know my way around an engine and its my fingers not somebodys elses. I have no idea of what other peoples knowledge levels are and as such would only offer the safest method.

 

Follows is a quote from a 4stroke engine manual. (Marine, Not Aircraft)

 

"To prevent accidental engine starting, remove (and isolate) spark plugs leads & Plugs from engine before working on propellor"

 

If they feel it needs to be said, there must be a reason, the chance might only be a billion to one, but somebody has to win the lottery and the odds are about the same.

 

Simon L

Well said Simon

 

The safest way is the best way but you pays your money you takes your choice

[Newboy]

Just another thing about 2 strokes, never rev and rev a 2 stroke on muffs, cos once over a certain rev range the engine will go into a free spin until destruction even if you remove the key, isolate the battery the lot.

[kaptin kod]

Thanks for all the comments etc, Started the engine up yesterday on the mufflers, prop spins slightly on first start up, put the engine in forward and back to neutral and it spins quite considerably, get the tell tale clunk as it goes into forward. checked cables were ok at FNR lever no probs there. am able to spin prop easily with engine off in N, didn't try reverse as manual says not to run in reverse with mufflers. Completly confused now so will have to send her back to the maintenance guys to have a look.

 

KK

[TomBettle]

Gotta say Simon

 

...you are spot on, SAFETY FIRST.

 

...bow down to offering the simplest, but possibly dangerous route.

Mike's method is the official "safe" way to do it and should be the way practised by any DIYers.

 

Tom

[great white]

Well that one span out of conrol for a bit in the middle

 

I have tried starting a 60HP out board by the emergancy pull cord with a lot of cursing and sweat eventually it ran

 

I would think 1/2 a rev of the prop would make starting an engine impossible, but just in case remove the kill cord.

 

The position of Nuetral should be easy to find

 

The gear selection is vis a dogclutch so it is only Ahead-Nuetral- Reverse

 

In Nuetral the Prop spins freely in ether gear it will not

 

If the boat is on her trailer an easy one to check without the engine running.

 

The real problem would be if the selection of a gear causes the box to growl as it goes into gear, this indicates that gear selection is not positive enough. It could result in beveling the leading edges of the dog clutch and require a lot of expensive work. at times if the gears become badly worn they stick in gear.

 

I am sure that this may not be the case, but if in doubt maybe an engineer looking at it would be a safe bet, a few quid spent now may save a lot of down time and expense later.

 

Charlie

 

 

 

 

[duncan]

Well that one span out of conrol for a bit in the middle

 

 

that's just the thread empathising with the prop Charlie...........

 

safety first

 

safety second

 

?