Mike Fox

The "black fish" market does concern many. I understand that registered vessels have a variety of illegal strategies to retain over-quota fish, to land and sell fish without it contributing to their vessel's quota, and to use a variety of distribution channels to achieve untaxed income. I also understand that the smaller "inshore" commercial vessels are not currently obliged to declare their catches, which means quota calculations are incorrect, and this provides a potential mechanism for larger vessels to "dump" some of their over-quota catches for profit. Even the legitimate landings by this sector can be significant, if they're not constrained by days at sea (e.g. the inshore trawlers criss-crossing Poole Bay). Unregistered vessels are often seen day after day, catching large quantities of bass on inshore and offshore banks and marks. While their actions might be totally legitimate, I'm not aware that formal checks are ever (or frequently) performed on their activities. There are suspicions that they land bass, and sell them privately to the hotel and restaurant trade, again for untaxed income. I would therefore like to propose more potential measures for the Angling Trust to pursue on our behalf: - I think this tax evasion element might be one worth exploiting further by the Angling Trust, as this will introduce Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) into the equation, with their additional resources of people, surveillance, and coastal vessels, and more punitive penalites including confiscation of vessels. Even widely announcing their involvement might be enough to make black fish landings reduce significantly if not stop (as a deterrent). - Traceability of high-value fish species such as bass (or all landings?) could be enforced. The hotel or restaurant would be obliged to prove their supplies came from a legitimate source, and that source was both taxed and traceable back to capture date and vessel, and a Registered Fish Landing Location. - All ports (in the EU?) to have Registered Fish Landing locations, which would issue documentation for all landed fish passing through, enabling Traceability. Significant fines and other deterrents would be needed to enforce all landings through these points. The cost of these would be significant, as 24 x 7 manning would be needed, but automated controls could also be considered. All registered vessels, including the smaller inshore commercial ones, to use the Registered Fish Landing locations, to ensure more accurate calculation on stock impacts. I'll add these to the list above. Mike

Thanks for the input chaps...and keep them coming! As a thought: I remember that National Service has never actually been stopped, it's just the annual intake was reduced by Parliament to zero. The reason they did this was that in a national emergency they could resume conscription with a simple vote, not needing weeks and weeks to get new legislation approved. The reason I mention this is that I suspect (though am not certain) that changing mesh sizes might be easier than the convoluted mass of legislation surrounding rights to fish in certain areas. If I were to vote on a single measure to improve Recreational Sea Angling, it would be to increase mesh sizes for all inshore netting activities to a minimum of 1m square Does anyone else think this might work? Mike

Thanks Dave

All, I found David Mitchell's talk to be fascinating at our club meeting on Thursday 2nd February 2012, and I did talk to him afterwards about some of the points raised. It's a complex topic, and I am starting to see why the Angling Trust is spread thinly, particularly relating to restoration of fish stocks available to recreational sea anglers. In summary, my understanding of the 4 main issues presented were: - Multiple "battlegrounds" on which to fight; - Multiple stakeholders to involve and influence; - Complex legal framework at local, national and international levels; - Lack of funding to help make major achievements. I'm not a lawyer, and without help I would be unwilling to refer to published links and articles that are unlikely to be read, but there are ever-widening levels of legislation from local to international: - Southern IFCA - Bylaws http://www.southern-ifca.gov.uk/byelaws - UK legislation: Wildlife & Countryside Act see also here: http://www.seafish.org/media/Publications/...ife_Species.pdf - EU legislation (common fisheries policy) - International Regulations for the Avoidance of Collision at Sea (ColRegs) For this post, I would ask the club membership: - To help make the legislation simple and help clarify WHAT is illegal today (which ones have I got wrong or missed?). - To suggest what we as club members could do to stamp out illegal practices. I might insert a few more, as suggestions come in! ILLEGAL FISHING ACTIVITIES (in alphabetical order) Bass conservation area rule breaches Black fish landings (illegal landings by registered or unregistered vessels) Fixed nets in Poole Harbour (other than Fyke nets) banned from Apr-Sept inclusive (Southern IFCA by-law 17.1(a)) Foreign flagged vessels fishing within 6 miles? Foul-hooking fish deliberately (Southern IFCA by-law No. 23) Game fish (sea trout, salmon) being retained without a license http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homea...hing/31497.aspx Pair trawling by British Registered vessels in UK waters ? Protected species being landed at all (e.g. allis shad, basking shark, Couch's Goby, Giant goby, Sturgeon, tope, silver eels, etc) - others? Quotas of quota species being exceeded Retention of fish (quota species and others) under legal Minimum Landing Sizes http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/fishe...umfishsizes.pdf Shellfish retention under sized or out of season Species bans being broken (e.g. a cod ban after quota exceeded) Traceability breaches Vessels over 12m registered after 01/01/95 fishing within 6 miles (Southern IFCA By-Law No 18) Vessels over 12m registered on or before 01/01/95 fishing within 3 miles (Southern IFCA By-Law No.18(i)) Unattended fixed nets? Unregistered vessels netting commercially under engine (Southern IFCA By-Law No.19) Visibility of marker buoys for nets and pots? WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT THEM? Be aware of Marine Police availability: http://www.dorset.police.uk/pdf/marine%20c...0prevention.pdf Put key phone numbers into mobile phone (which ones?) - Portland Coastguard 01305 760439 - Southern IFCA 01202 721373 Take pictures of suspected illegal activity (photograph vessel/vehicle registration number?) Log locations of suspected illegal activity (photograph suspect and GPS?) Report to Coastguards, Police, fisheries Protection, Angling Trust (others?) Please feel free to add to this thread to help educate the membership. I can't help but think if we all knew and understood what was illegal today, collected the evidence and then let others do the prosecutions, then this would help the Angling Trust build some case studies, record some real "achievements" and hence attract new members and funding, so they would be spread less thinly. Thanks, Mike

All, I found David Mitchell's talk to be fascinating at our club meeting on Thursday 2nd February 2012, and I did talk to him afterwards about some of the points raised. It's a complex topic, and I am starting to see why the Angling Trust is spread thinly, particularly relating to restoration of fish stocks available to recreational sea anglers. In summary, my understanding of the 4 main issues presented were: - Multiple "battlegrounds" on which to fight; - Multiple stakeholders to involve and influence; - Complex legal framework at local, national and international levels; - Lack of funding to help make major achievements. I must admit to struggling with all of the abbreviations and public bodies and individuals (and I guess others would have too), so it was difficult to understand much about the key players in his discussions. As such, I think it might be useful: - To help clarify WHO are the main stakeholders (which ones have I missed?); - To have one single place on the forum to check a bit of jargon or abbreviation; - What AVAILABLE METHODS do members of THIS club believe exist for the Angling Trust to be able to achieve change (which ones have I missed?) I will insert a few more, as suggestions come in! Please help. Please let me know if I missed anyone or any valid method! STAKEHOLDERS and other abbreviations (in alphabetical order) ADB = Angling Development Board http://www.anglingtrust.net/landing.asp?section=27

All, I found David Mitchell's talk to be fascinating at our club meeting on Thursday 2nd February 2012, and I did talk to him afterwards about some of the points raised. It's a complex topic, and I am starting to see why the Angling Trust is spread thinly, particularly relating to restoration of fish stocks available to recreational sea anglers. In summary, my understanding of the 4 main issues presented were: - Multiple "battlegrounds" on which to fight; - Multiple stakeholders to involve and influence; - Complex legal framework at local, national and international levels; - Lack of funding to help make major achievements. For this post, I would ask the club membership: - To help clarify WHICH battlegrounds exist that would be useful for the Angling Trust to get involved with (which ones have I missed?). I might insert a few more, as suggestions come in! BATTLEGROUNDS (in alphabetical order) Advertising of improved vigilance, reporting, and incident handling by Angling Trust AIS mandating for all registered vessels (not just large ones) to aid rule breach detection Bag Limits per species per angler per day at sensible levels to distinguish RSAs from illegal commercial fishermen Beam trawling restrictions (e.g. Southern IFCA is trying this) Black fish (Illegal selling of fish by Registered / Unregistered boats) Closed areas and seasons for targetting/landings of breeding fish (bass etc) Days at sea limits (seek less time, so less catches) Deterrents being increased (such as involvement of HMRC for tax evasion) Discards (see Hugh's Fish Fight http://www.fishfight.net/ ) Enforcement improvements (within current regulations) Fishing effort constraints (see http://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/documentatio..._effort_en.pdf) Fleet size limits per port Food chain species protections (quotas for sandeels, use undersized non-discarded fish instead?, etc) Golden mile (one mile offshore with no commercial netting) Grandfather rights (historic family rights to have fixed nets, Magna Carta, etc) Grants available to commercial fishermen (put offshore only strings attached?) Inclusion of "inshore" commercial catches to be registered against quotas Inshore commercial boat size limits (12m now...what if this were 8m within 6 miles of land?) Licensing system for commercial fishermen (one conviction and remove license?) Logbooks to be mandated for all commercial fishermen (not just 10m + vessels) MCA coding rules relating to commercial vessels (force out unwanted vessels?) Mesh sizes (increase them to allow immature fish escape) Minimum Landing Sizes - MLS ("up" them together with more species listed e.g. Black Bream?) MLS "waiver" rules, if discards banned (undersized retained fish to turn into fish meal/animal fodder?) New Quota species (e.g. include bass on the list) Pair trawling restrictions (UK and Foreign vessels in all UK waters?) Penalty increases for convictions (removal of license, confiscation of vessel) Prosecution of offenders (Fish Legal etc) Registered Fish Landing Locations to be set up and managed Quick response team to help control capture of illegally fishing vessels Quotas per species (smaller quotas to achieve stock restoration) Scientific quota recommendation endorsement (understand, validate, agree, support, resist "political adjustment", etc) "Smart" nets such as Eliminator Trawls (square mesh panels etc) Tax evasion investigations, and HMRC involvement Traceability improvements to be implemented for retail outlets (make it illegal to buy/use "black" fish) Water quality prosecutions (cleaner water, better nursery area protections) What would be YOUR top 3 priorities for some quick wins for the Angling Trust. This part of the thread is open to the public, so keep it nice folks! Mike

Great summary Neal - thanks. Mike

Sunday is a possibility for Frisky too.... Mike

Well done chaps....utterly mad, but you caught fish! I guess it's all about controlled risk...like any other boating. Great report - thanks. Mike

For any other amateur paeleoanthropologists out there, I found this link. See here: http://news.yahoo.com/fishy-shows-humans-s...-163528249.html There's all kinds of circumstantial evidence of boats from this period (how else did the Aborigines get to Australia!), and for the distances involved these would have needed sails, steering systems and navigational principles, which would naturally have given the opportunities for fishing (or fishing led to the development of better boats!). It's intriguing to see the species list targeted (and evidenced), and the use of hooks and lures from this period. I find it fascinating that what we do today with man-made materials, polmers, hydrocarbons, carefully manaufactured machines, alloys, and computerised wizardry used to be performed perfectly satisfactorily by people from the stone age with wood, natural fibres, stone tools, and bits of shell. Mike

Colin, There's a number of oxalic acid and phosphoric acid based gels and creams around too (I use "Y10"). Both turn the rust (ferrous oxide) into a clear, water-soluble chemical (ferrous oxalate or ferrous phosphate respectively) that vanishes quickly, and can be rinsed clean. Mike

If you stroked it from tail to head, on the back did it feel rough all over? Looks very "dabby" to me too. Mike

I heard several had been washed up dead at Studland Terry, following the recent water polo tournament....apparently squashed. Mike

Any chance of a clear agenda so that the assembled throng can prepare questions? Thanks, Mike

Unbelievable! Makes you wonder how the French and Spanish would have handled it.... Mike

It was a great day out there, despite the lack of cod and whiting. Was really surprised to see blonde rays at this time of the year, and the alleged cod hole seemed stuffed with conger. I hooked into a decent one for a few seconds, so I reckon I'll be back, and will try it again for next year's species comp. Had a light rod down for whiting for much of the day....but not even one showed. Think the water might be a little warm ? Thanks again Neal - as ever a great trip, even if the target species didn't make an appearance! Mike

See here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16230086 Mike

You were more than welcome Stuie, and glad you enjoyed! Mike

Congrats Neal! You kept that one quiet!!!! Hope you have a great weekend. Mike, Carol and George

Looks like a gentle trundle on Frisky tomorrow, with George and Stuie for company. Good luck all those get out! Will try to keep an ear out on Channel 6. Mike

Am thinking of an inshore trip on Saturday in the brief weather window, primarily after a few whiting, with a chance (hopefully) of something larger. Anyone have reports of any near Poole, and suggestions of inshore marks? Happy to take crew on Frisky (but tis slow!) or be crew. Mike

See here: http://www.rnli.org.uk/who_we_are/press_ce...rticleid=737090 Mike PS Interesting picture, when downloaded and zoomed in

Well done all those that fished yesterday, and more so for those that caught cod at the Needles car park and elsewhere. I persevered with 4/0 pennels on 100lb trace trying to catch a fat whiting or two with a chance of a bonus cod, but had neither. Managed a stack of doggies, and a few fat pout, and connected with most of the bites I seemed to have. Interestingly, whipping two squid side by side on the pennel later on in the day presented too fat a bait for doggies to swallow, or tear apart readily. Not sure it released so much smell though... One whiting of 1.5lb or so was also seen on board, plus a couple of conger in the 25-35lb bracket. Did anyone get into the whiting...anywhere? Interesting sea state for neap tides and a SSE 3-4 (and I think it never got more than that), which is not uncommon at this time of year. Comments above did made me think which boats did find it comfortable or even tolerable? It might be useful information for anyone considering a change! Mike

Hi Martin, The rules you referred to above name me still. I had an interesting chat with a member last night who followed these instructions, but I think you might prefer to have a current committee member named instead. Happy to help in the meantime Mike

Well done Bobi, and very well deserved! Mike