Graham Nash Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I was out on Serenity last week on the training day and was amazed at the size of anchor Tony uses. I have always used a 15 kilo Danforth anchor with about 5 met of 10mm chain and pulled it up by hand but am hoping to utilise my 5 kilo bruce anchor and put about 10 to 15 met of chain onto it and use the alderney retrieval system? I have an 18ft Raider, and rarely anchor in more than about 100 ft. Would 5 kilos and 15 met chain hold my boat in normal circumstances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 The longer chain would certainly help, but if it were me I would go up a size on the bruce. and keep the other for shallow use, an emergancy spare or kedge anchor. We use a 15kg bruce [copy] now after starting with a 10kg. It goes in much better [but not always, depending on sea bed, weather and tide] The alderney buoy system lifts it fine. I have improved the alderney system recently by changing the shackle between the warp and chain to a smaller but higher quality stainless one. [ Touch wood] it is now much easier to run the buoy all the way to the anchor, where previously it sometimes got caught on the shackle, and went back down when the power was taken off. In shallow water I still use a 15kg bruce, but off the bow windlass which has only 100m of warp due to the locker size. I hope that helps Graham Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 At the moment I use a 5kg Bruce with 5m of chain, although when I had my Sea Safety Check recently, Mike showed me a table that recommended a 7.5kg Bruce for my Warrior 165. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Ok, so based on Charlies (and Brians) comments above, does anyone want to swap - P/EX a 7.5 or 10kg bruce type anchor for a 5 kilo one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Graham Was that you that came out of Rockley on Monday, while I was sat on one of the moorings flounder fishing? If it was, I appologise for not recognising you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 t'was me Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Did you catch anything, we had a couple of flounders there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Graham I have a spare 7.5 on Phaeton that I will swap for a 5 - it's locked up though, so it would have to wait until I am next down ( when I can leave it in your cockpit or otherwise make arrangements.) 7.5 with 10-12m of 8mm chain should be work fine for you - it was my set up on my 21ft'r previously... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) I have set mine up today Duncan with 11 met of chain, but would be happy for you to keep me informed as to when you are next down and i would be happy to pay you the difference obviously. Many thanks. Graham. Brian I was not really out to fish, i just had a few quiet hours off work so i thought i would take advantage of the nice weather. I did drown a few worms but didnt even get a sniff. Was nice to be out tho. Edited October 30, 2010 by Graham Nash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) I have a 35lb CQR (about 16kg) with 40m of 8mm chain (about 64kg) and 20m of anchorplait behind it as my primary anchor, with everything shackled and moused, and nothing set to trip, as this just has to hold in an emergency. With the Brittany tides approaching 15m, and wanting 2m at low water springs, this gives me a marginal 3:1 scope. If I had all rope, I'd need more. I have confidence this will hold 6 tons of boat in a Force 8 or above in any reasonable holding (heavy weed is an issue), and have done so. It's a pig to get out again mind, so if it ever does go in hard, I have to motor to above the anchor, and make fast on a short scope on deck and then REVERSE the anchor out...like using a 1:1 scope, it shouldn't hold, and doesn't. If I ever need to abandon the anchor, the anchorplait is connected to a strong point by thick cord, that could be cut quickly in an emergency. My kedge is a 15kg Bruce to chain and rope. I also have a fisherman's for when I go for the longer trip, where I might need to anchor over weed / rock. My fishing anchor is typical of the other boats in the club. A 5kg Bruce clone, with chain to take the chafe, and 110m of 12mm rope. The anchor is rigged to trip, with moused shackles and string not cable ties (6 tons breaks even large cable ties lies cotton). This setup lives in a plastic wash bin, and moved to the anchor well when needed. The bitter end has a loop leading from the base of the basket to go over a bow cleat to guarantee I don't drop it all over the side. I use the Alderney ring system using a large fender to lift the anchor, and at 6 knots under engine, lifting it properly is marginal, with about 70-80% working properly, and some getting caught on the rope/chain shackle joint and dropping to the seabed again. I'm going to whip a taper over this joint to make this easier. Now the bad news. It's horribly undersized, and will not hold above about Force 4, or in a moderate swell, but it is easy to manhandle when needed. The plotter has often showed a series of scallop-shaped tracks, where the boat veers in wind across tide situations, then lifts the anchor...which then resets repeatedly. The anchor is particularly poor in gravel, but is good in sand, mud, and even rock, where it has to be broken out. Yes, I know I should go to bigger, but it's not my main anchor, and if it's too lumpy to hold, we generally don't enjoy the fishing much anyway. I'd say that 7.5 kg anchor to chain would be much better than 5kg for Little Sal, and would suggest keeping another ready to use as a kedge or spare if ever needed. Mike Edited October 30, 2010 by Mike Fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Its interesting that you have 6 tons of boat being held on A 5 kg bruce up to a force 4 Mike. I rarely fish more than force 4 (i suffer quite badly from motion sickness and as you say, it's not that pleasant anyway) and my boat is probably less than 1/5th of the weight of yours. I think Duncans 7.5 kg bruce along with my 11 met of chain should give me loads of hold, even on our spring tides. Many thanks everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I have a 6kg delta anchor attached to10 metres of 8mm chain with 140 metres of 12mm octoplait. I rarely have holding problems although in very large tides it has happened especially when I don't let out enough warp. I used to own a warrior 195 on this I had a 7.5kg brucealike with 7 metres chain and 210 metres of 12mm nylon and again rarely had a problem holding I think you 5kg or Duncans 7.5kg would both do the job but you will suffer less problems with the 7.5kg bruce Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I set it up today Martin and it is MUCH heavier than my old set up and i rarely had problems with that so i think i will be ok till Duncan is about. Just gotta hope that my buoy will lift it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Charlie A and I had issues on Star Turn holding in tide on a ray mark (5kg bruce copy) - he upgraded to a 7.5kg (of the same) and we held in similar if not rougher conditions on the Open no probs, though no longer quite sure it is a ray mark!!! Quick question - weight of chain is important - which is better: a longer length of thinner chain (smaller link) or a shorter length of heavier chain? (please dont say longer length of thicker chain!!!) Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Rob, the chain is fulfilling more than one function - so there's no single right answer. It prevents chafing to the rode, including actually getting rubbed right through in a short time if you get the wrong circumstances! So the rule of thumb is 1.5 x the length of the boat as chain - although this makes no allowance for hull shape and displacements. For holding purposes the best place for the weight is at the end of the stock, so short and heavy works best. On the other hand in terms of setting performance you would want the weight in the anchor itself. Finally there is the issue of alderney ring mechanics and overall rode handling. Hence for most boats in the 17-25ft bracket you will see recommendation around 8-12m of 8mm chain with the former just counterbalancing a 7.5kg anchor, and the latter a 10kg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherman1055 Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I was using a 7.5kg brucetype anchor with 10 meters of 8mm chain and 160 m of 14mm multiplait the give in the multiplait is good at preventing breakouts remember to use a good quality ( thick) cable tie on the trip on the anchor or else this will give causing a breakout Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted October 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 remember to use a good quality ( thick) cable tie on the trip on the anchor or else this will give causing a breakout Very good (and important) point Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 also important is to monel wire your shackles to avoid them working loose and coming undone which is bound to happen at the most inappropriate moment Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuie Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 I'm just changing a 3.5 kg Danforth to a 5 kg Bruce type on my Alaska 500. I was unhappy with the Danforth before I ever used it as it's not easy to set it up to trip. There's 10 metres of 8mm chain on 100 metres 10mm warp. Reading all of the above this looks to be the minimum I should use. I'm interested in knowing how to monel wire the shackles. A colleague of mine suggested burring over the end thread? Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherman1055 Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 I use shackles that are tightened with an alen key and put my anchoring rig together each time I use it it is important to avoid any protrusion that will prevent the Alderney ring sliding over the shackel to the chain and down to the anchor Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 I'm interested in knowing how to monel wire the shackles. A colleague of mine suggested burring over the end thread? Stuart Have a look on this site, gives info and a picture bottom right http://www.rocna.com/kb/Shackles Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 I just put a couple of cable ties through the hole in the threaded part of the shackle and loop inside the shackle - job done! If I have time I have used stainless wire or even copper before - however the cable tie is easy on the hands. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 With my Raider 18 I found a 5kg Bruce not quite big enough but since increasing to a 7.5kg no problem. Gordon H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niggle Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 5kgs Bruce (copy) 5metres of heavy chain OK on my 21ft QS,trick is let out lots of rope,not been a problem in waters to 120ft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted December 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 I used my 5kg and 11 met chain once!!! The boat wouldnt start and I couldnt lift the anchor by hand in the worsening conditions so I had to cut it loose!!! I am now back to my old faithful danforth for now :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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