Bag Restrictions

[Maverick Martin]

To: All boat anglers;

 

The issue of conservation and the protection of fish stocks is very topical at the moment with much discussion between commercial fisherman and recreational anglers about how best to go about this,

 

I would like you to consider the following statement and let me know whether you agree or disagree with it;

 

"there may be some anglers that might support bag limits providing proportionate restrictions were applied to the commercial sector"

 

please use the voting buttons to leave your views, this is an anonymous survey and you cannot be identified by voting.

 

I will discuss the outcome at the October Meeting.

 

Tony Deavin

Club Chairman.

 

Posted on behalf of Tony Deavin

 

Martin

[duncan]

you need to be more precise

 

I have no problem with an 'annual bag limit' applied to the boat at all - I have huge problems with one based on a day, or trip etc

 

My reasoning is that the latter has absolutely no impact on conservation as a whole.

 

Then you have the question of whether it applies to the craft or the person?

 

Finally you would have the ridiculous situation of recreational netting and discards etc

[ChrisE]

you need to be more precise

 

I have no problem with an 'annual bag limit' applied to the boat at all - I have huge problems with one based on a day, or trip etc

 

My reasoning is that the latter has absolutely no impact on conservation as a whole.

 

Then you have the question of whether it applies to the craft or the person?

 

Finally you would have the ridiculous situation of recreational netting and discards etc

The system currently in place for seatrout and salmon seems to me to be perfectly sensible and practically achievable.

 

The tiny problem which some may have is that the system relies upon the angler having a licence and it is issued and renewed on the understanding that the angler keeps to the limits (from memory it is something like no more than one fish per trip and a limit on the year).

 

Personally, I have no problems with a licence provided that it can be shown to provide value for those that pay the fees. Like most I'm buggered if I'm providing an extra revenue stream for the government.

[Matt]

Like others I would consider an annual one based on trust and possibly a seperate scheme for charter boats.

 

However there are pratical concerns, such as deep water wreck fishing where most Pollack which wont come up alive, deep hooked fish - I'd hate it if we ended up discarding such fish cos we end uo fined if we brought it in to port

 

Plus how on earth could you inforce it?

 

I can also see it causing a lot of resentment- certainly when some of the Commercial Bass Boates which fish Portland race (Fair play to them in a way I wouldn't go there in the tiny boats they use ) probably take more Bass in a day than I will in my entire fishing career.

 

''If I am fishing alongside one of them why should what I can take be limited when they can pull fish in all day?''

 

However we do have to be sensible with what we take and whenI think the way the Bream Marks get hammered is a bit irresponsible at times(especialy when they are there to spawn) I don't know what its like out of poole but when we used to fish out of portsmouth you could pretty much walk from boat to boat on the favoured Marks.

 

It would also be nice if certain fish had a zero bag limit (smoothies tope etc)

 

 

[Matt]

''The system currently in place for seatrout and salmon seems to me to be perfectly sensible and practically achievable.''

 

I don't think there is a universal rule for Salmon. Some rivers are Catch and release only.(I believe the Hampshire Avon is catch and release)

 

I think its was only aceptable to take your First ever Salmon from the river I fished in Scotland but as I only caught 1 the question never arose if I could keep a second!

[ChrisE]

You can tell the last time I bought a T&S licence!

 

I believe that you still need to record the number you catch tho'

[pirky]

With all due respect gents.....IMHO....the Salmon and Sea trout issue is small [ no less important I stress ] compared with the Universal issue of sea fishing around our coastline. [ just my opinion you understand... I may be wrong.]

 

The target species are so specific and the limited access to large numbers makes their case for licence and bag limits much more do-able. There may be some issues for commercials out of some northern and Scottish ports but in general the recreational angler has limited and often controlled access.....

 

This is a very interesting and emotive thread similar to another ongoing thread today!!

 

Dave

[Neal]

I have just seen this regarding proposed bag limits that will probably be introduced in Alderney.

 

http://www.alderney.gov.gg/static/181514280128751399

 

and specifically

 

6.Charter fishing vessels, that are not Registered Sea Fishing Vessels, should have a bag limit restricting the catching of Ray, Turbot and Brill to two fish (not per species) in total per person per day to protect stocks. This would require legislation to be introduced under a States of Alderney Sea Fishing Ordinance.

 

 

7.All charter fishing vessels to carry log books which can be inspected. This is to ensure that recommendation number 6 is complied with. This would require legislation to be introduced under a States of Alderney Sea Fishing Ordinance.

 

 

8.A restriction on the landing on Alderney of more than two fish per person from charter vessels that are not Registered Sea Fishing Vessels.

 

I don't know if private vessels are included in this

 

Neal

Edited September 13, 2011 by Neal

[Mike Fox]

Am glad this has been raised again following the discussion held at the club meeting several months ago.

 

I remain convinced that if leading clubs do not lead on this matter, then rules and regulations will be imposed from above, without appropriate consultation, potentially leading to advantages for some sectors over others.

 

It would be good to have Pete Russell's considered views here, as his earlier comments and experience in such matters are different to mine.

 

Mike

[duncan]

I have just seen this regarding proposed bag limits that will probably be introduced in Alderney.

 

http://www.alderney.gov.gg/static/181514280128751399

 

and specifically

 

6.Charter fishing vessels, that are not Registered Sea Fishing Vessels, should have a bag limit restricting the catching of Ray, Turbot and Brill to two fish (not per species) in total per person per day to protect stocks. This would require legislation to be introduced under a States of Alderney Sea Fishing Ordinance.

 

 

7.All charter fishing vessels to carry log books which can be inspected.  This is to ensure that recommendation number 6 is complied with. This would require legislation to be introduced under a States of Alderney Sea Fishing Ordinance.

 

 

8.A restriction on the landing on Alderney of more than two fish per person from charter vessels that are not Registered Sea Fishing Vessels.

 

I don't know if private vessels are included in this

 

Neal

Neal

 

Many here submitted to the consultation process around this.

 

The bit you seem to have missed is "At present the professional fishermen are required to keep records of their catches which are submitted to Guernsey Sea Fisheries. No record is kept of what fish are caught by charter anglers or amateur anglers. It is felt that it would be impractical to require or indeed

Edited September 13, 2011 by duncan

[Brian]

It would also be nice if certain fish had a zero bag limit (smoothies tope etc)

As I understand it, Tope are protected and mustn't be taken (as are several other species).

[fisherman1055]

I am looking to explore the concept of limitations on catches appliable to both commercial and recreational anglers and whether this is acceptable to

recreational anglers.

 

Thissurvey follows misrepresentation at a national level of what has been suggested.

 

I am keen to identify the local views on recreational anglers and whether you would accept bag limits if proportionate restrictions were applied to commercial anglers.

 

Thank you for your responses so far

 

Tony

[Guest Bob Shotter]

Hello guys and thanks for letting me join your ranks even though I'm not a small boat owner though I do get out with a good many that do.

 

For those that don

[Coddy]

Hi Bob and welcome to the forum

 

I think it very unwise in this day and age to bury your head and say these issues do not affect me and will not take part in any initiatives. Like most things in life you have to make compromises and whilst we all would like to catch fish on every trip, or any fish come to that, we understand that with the current state of sea fisheries some resources are now scarce.

 

Can I suggest that some of the suggested proposals are simple bag limits on certain species, e.g Bass, Cod, some Rays and skate and I am not suggesting on all fish. Unfortunately many RSA go out and try to fill their freezer with every fish and size and like some commercials keep every fish caught.

If we take Bass as an example, I am sure we as RSA would be happy to keep a couple of Bass for the table and return the rest to fight another day but for many of us to catch a couple of Bass every trip would be great but the reality is we don't or even can't catch fish that regularly. I know some anglers can catch a target species almost every time and well done to them but I am sure they return the majority of fish caught. So my point is if you set a bag limit of say 2 or 3 sizable fish to be caught and kept per angler per day I see no problem, the other advantage of having a bag limit, it allows IFCA officials to check ANY boat to see what has been kept and this would apply to licensed craft as well as the private owner, this would assist the officials in stopping the sale of black market fish from un-licensed fisherman.

 

I am happy to accept bag sensible limits as it is a hobby for me, but the commercial people have got to play along with similar rules and stop discards. We need to ensure that there are fish for our children and our children

[mw]

If it would help the fish stocks I think most RSA fisherman would agree with a bag limit but it would not make the slightest difference if the commercials don't play ball

I don't think that their many RSA that keep all the fish they catch and quite a lot of

people that catch bass put them back .

mark w

[Rob]

 

Lead by example, practice what you preach and not do as I say not as I do!

 

We can't request quotas and bag limits for commercials if we dont do our bit and take the high ground - personally if bag limits mean't that there will be mountains more fish and growing not just sustainable stocks in 10 years, then I am for them.

 

If you look at countries like Canada and NZ who have strick limits, they also have great stocks of fish and superb sport fishing!

 

"It is a well-known fact that RSA have a very small impact on the overall stock" - are there scientific papers? If so I woudl be interested in seeing them.

 

Rob

 

 

[Guest Bob Shotter]

Some great points lads and thanks for looking at the idea from a new view point. To answer some of your points

[Maverick Martin]

Bob

 

I respect and mostly agree with your views however I do have certain issues with your .org

 

1. Who asked you to be representative of anglers and where does your mandate come from

 

2.

The aim of which is to serve as a voice for anglers

Why is it that you only take notice of those that pay on your .org

 

3. How can you be representative with such a small membership

 

This club is affiliated to the angling trust, are you saying that we should also be affilliated to you so we may have a voice on your .org? Why not get involved with our national association who may not be perfect but do have a larger following. I feel you maybe diluting the representation we already have.

 

Martin

[duncan]

Some great points lads and thanks for looking at the idea from a new view point. To answer some of your points

Edited October 22, 2011 by duncan

[Guest Bob Shotter]

Hello again guys Peter Russell has told me I come across like some headmaster type talking to naughty children, I hope you don

[Paul D]

Welcome to the forum Bob.

 

Now try telling an angler wanting a day

[Guest Bob Shotter]

Hi Paul and thanks for the welcome, my reference on Cod was about the North East Coast ports. All angling in the area is reliant on the Cod stock and angling groups flock there keeping these ports vibrant, yes you will hear the same argument as has been suggested here about the Bass and the black market which I do not support none the less it is down to a numbers shout.

 

Just a couple of years ago the Cod were thick on the brittle star ground in your area and it would be impossible for rsa to fish them out now they appear to have moved west where a few years ago we would be lucky to see one or two in a year now it is one or two a drift. Year on year neat the Channel Islands the Bass are targeted and again no impact from anglers. However along comes the French and Spanish pair trawlers and wham millions of fish gone, even the wrecks would be hard to fish out by rod and line but a few gill nets and there go all the bigger fish.

 

So Paul to conclude I don

[Paul J]

Bob.

 

Why is it that you have chosen to break from the Angling trust rather than use your influence to increase the Sea angling representation in this organisation?

 

Creating splinter groups is going back to what it used to be like under the NFSA and that did very little for us.

 

Causing division within angling plays right into the commercials hands and weakens our position in terms of numbers

 

PJ

 

[Guest Bob Shotter]

Paul this is off topic and I have no wish to cause any problems but if you and your mods don

[Graham Nash]

I think there are many that have voices similar reservations concerning the AT within our own club Bob, and well done to you for "putting your money where your mouth is":

 

I for one would be interested in knowing what you think you can do and how you think you can do it when everyone else has failed so miserably.

 

Incidentally I did join your forum some time ago but never progressed to the "pay" status as although you were all very friendly and some seemed very knowledgable you were very limited at the time with very few (if any) posters from down this area.