Graham Nash Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Well at long last the day came to get her bum wet. Final checks on all the "bungs", engine checks, 40 litres of fuel (as we were only popping out to Ballard). Checked all 4 bilge pumps, lights, life jackets and auxillary engine (just in case). Motored slowly out of Rockley and did a few little runs up and down the channels. All seemed ok. Through the harbour and everything still seemed ok. Out of the harbour and opened her up a little .... 24knotts and feeling good .... then a bit of spluttering and slowing down ... I noticed that the rubber fuel feed pump thing had sucked in and was restricting the fuel flow. Slow down and releasing the pressure on it saw it spring back to shape .... tried the same again and the same thing happened so it was necessary to back off a little and keep her around 16-17 knotts and all seemed ok .... any advice on this would be greatfully received Arrived at our chosen spot and dropped the anchor. 5 minutes later one of my auto bilge pumps started spewing water out . Lifted an inspection hatch to see the hull with aroung 6 inches of water in!! A quick flick of all of the bilge pump switches had it dry in no time. Time to relax and fish but about 5 minutes later the bilge pump is working over time again. Once again the hull was full of water! This went on for a while till I decided the possibility of a bilge pump fuse popping was too big a risk to take so we headed back in for an early day and an investigation of the problem. Once back and tied up along side and my head inside the bilge through the inspection hatch showed water literally POURING in through the transome as much as if there was 2 taps left open!! . It would seem that when the engine was fitted, the 2 old mounting holes (beneath the water line) were NOT filled!! 2 dowels hammered into the holes later and it all seems better so we shall try again tomorrow. Checked the fuel tank and it was almost bone dry so we had used 40 litres to get from Rockley to Ballard and back (although probably with an AWFUL lot of water as passenger). Incidentally we had 2 very expensive bream and one doggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) Hi Graham Re the fuel pipe, is it the fuel pipe from your tank to the engine you are referring to? If so do you have the large bore pipe/connector to allow sufficient fuel flow? There are normally two 5/16" or 3/8" I would think you need 3/8" dia. Saw a similar problem on another forum with a 140hp with same problem, turned out to be too smaller id fuel pipe and it was also collapsing where it was held with a zip clip. Do you mean the primer bulb? This should have a one way valve built in but if the fuel flow is too great it might collapse under suction? Sorry to hear of water leak problems, should be an easy fix for you now, with all your GRP skills and a good size dowel in the hole. Did a quick check and I would think you did approx 10nm each way so approx 2ltrs/mile which seems a bit excessive for a 115HP Dave Edited May 20, 2012 by Coddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted May 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 primer bulb .... that was what I was trying to think of when I said "rubber fuel feed pump thing" Yes it was the primer bulb that was sucking in. I'll have another look today and see. Maybe it's just not man enough for 2 litres a mile to be passing through it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady jane Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 not sure what engine but some of the fuel injected models are not fitted with primer any more. andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted May 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) not sure what engine but some of the fuel injected models are not fitted with primer any more. andy This was my thoughts too Andy. Its a suzuki 115 4 stroke BTW. Edited May 20, 2012 by Graham Nash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Well done on getting it sorted Graham! I must admit that the thought of 4 bilge pumps and all of that extra foam for buoyancy rang alarm bells with me...but at least you've found out what worried previous owners! Am also surprised at the fuel consumption, and wonder if the same performance could be obtained with much better fuel economy as a much smaller engine ? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Re. Holes - I'm sure you've got it covered but don't rely on just dowels to plug the holes. I'd soak them in resin before driving then in, and then chamfer the hole around then, glass them in and gel coat over the top. I'm sure you'll get the teething issues sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niggle Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Now we know why u have four bilge pumps Very lucky mate and glad they worked Nige P.S are you sure it wasn't fuel in you're bilge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Graham, your Suzuki DF115, like my DF70, doesn't need a primer bulb. Although I've got one as it helps refill the "filter/water separator" when I change the filter. If the primer bulb is being sucked in, it must be trying to pull a vacuum, which suggests there's something restricting the fuel flow from the tank to the bulb: 1. Is the fuel tank breather clear? 2. Is there a filter on the bottom of the fuel pickup tube in the tank and if so is it clear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Well done graham - interesting times ahead! My first thought was fuel starvation from blocked breather on tank. Next time, when hula squashed, take the top off the tank and listen for the draw of air into the tank. Had this on an old car of mine, the tank took a breath when I took the filler cap off! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirky Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) Graham .... soz to hear about probs mate .... but I echo Brians take as the first step but include a problem I had once ( or twice) ........did you remember to OPEN the tank breather ???? At lower speed it may have not been a prob because the breathers never appear to be that efficient in the closed position IME however when the fuel flow becomes excessive it will restrict and cause a vac..... Hope you get it all sorted in short order mate... Dave Edited May 20, 2012 by pirky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 ........did you remember to OPEN the tank breather ???? ................Dave Dave I sort of hinted at that, but in a more diplomatic way!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 on this sort of trip I would want to know the tidal flows experienced, and, bluntly, the way the boat was driven given the speed limit. run that at 10 knots and you won't see even that fuel consumption! there's a good reason that any boat launched should check the bilges after a few minutes, and before leaving the dock...(accepting that the latter may not be an option for trailer launches) watching the build progress on here I was muttering 'weight' a couple of times, but time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Shortly after launching Jv we fitted alarms to the bilge pump wiring system for this very reason. Bigger boats with hatches and self draining decks need this really. Imagine you hadn't seen this until the boat started to wallow? As soon as the pumps kick in on Jv they sound an alarm and light in the wheelhouse to warn they are in operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted May 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Hind sight is a wonderful thing .... The primer problem does not show unless I am at full throttle and the breather IS open ..... (I've done that once and it's the first thing I checked yesterday) It would seem according to other posts that the DF doesnt need a primer so I will try it without and see how it goes. The fuel consumption I put down to my "playing" and testing accelleration, top speed, slow speed manouvering etc as well as the ton or so of water we were carrying along with us because today we covered probably twice the distance on a similar amount of fuel. Top speed still around 24 knotts, cruises cofortably at 17. The dowels have plugged the holes and is as much as we can do without removing the engine to get to both sides of the transom. It remained dry under there today dispite a reasonable swell. The only thing I have a problem with at the moment is water entering the deck via the draining holes during that swell. The 4 bilge pumps were fitted by me as I knew there was an awful lot hull to fill up. 2 of them are automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) there's a good reason that any boat launched should check the bilges after a few minutes, and before leaving the dock...(accepting that the latter may not be an option for trailer launches) watching the build progress on here I was muttering 'weight' a couple of times, but time will tell. Duncan I accept that metaphorical wrap across the knuckles for not checking the bilges before setting off .... It was stupid I know but I had seen the hull full of rain water during its time in my yard and no water leaked so I assumed the hull was intact. I also "knew" my bilge pumps would sort any problems .... obviously assuming they didnt stop working for any reason, which is why I returned when I did. Incidentally, no water enters the hull when we are motoring, probably because the wake takes the waterline well beneath the holes?? As for your concern about "weight" ...... I honestly cannot see that I have added much weight to the boat. I removed masses of heavy wet wood and replaced it with similar dry stuff. I have not used the two massive internal fuel tanks and I would suggest that the floor and ribs weigh no more than half of one of those fuel tanks when full. I do however have a temporary 70 litre fuel tank on the deck at the moment (which was not full on the first journey). My engine, which I believe to be 165kgs is probably half the weight of a decent diesel inboard and leg. And finally, I would think that my boat should easily cope with 4 crew. Most of my mates are around 100kgs so that would be around 400kgs excluding gear, My modifications would have weighed less than a quarter of that as an absolute maximum, not taking into account the weight of the stuff I removed. This is not a dig at you Duncan, it is/was my (maybe naive) thoughts during the build and welcome any other views. It does seem from the fact that water ingresses through the draining holes that maybe she does sit a little low in the water, but I cant see that is anything to do with what I have done. Edited May 21, 2012 by Graham Nash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Are the dowel holes under the waterline? I assume they are softwood, and you run the very likelihood of these absorbing water which in turn will, through capillary action absorb into the transom = not good. Remember fibreglass isn't waterproof, it needs gel coat to achieve this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Remember fibreglass isn't waterproof, it needs gel coat to achieve this. I didnt realise that Adam .... So are you saying that my deck (marine ply with 3 layers of fibreglass) is not waterproof?? The guy at the fibreglass place told me that it would be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Have a look here Graham: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=61387 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Have a look here Graham: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=61387 so reasonably water resistant .... but not water proof. Thats good enough for my deck i'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mw Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Grayham when I first had my wilson it had about 200 pounds of window sash bars up the front under the seats and then foam added with this in it sat level I removed it as I carry alot of weight me and gear but without the weight mine sit stern heavy and water comes in the scuppers so you may need some weight in the cabin mark w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirky Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Now or Never used to need weight up front too.... Time to experiment Graham Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Grayham when I first had my wilson it had about 200 pounds of window sash bars up the front under the seats and then foam added with this in it sat level I removed it as I carry alot of weight me and gear but without the weight mine sit stern heavy and water comes in the scuppers so you may need some weight in the cabin mark w Hmmmm. Never thought of that. When my mate and I were both sat up front by the cabin the water didnt't come in so you could be right. I have already put the batteries up front to remove weight from the rear, maybe I should keep the spare anchor and other heavy stuff up that end too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niggle Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Just put you're wallet up front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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