Poole Bay Flounders

[Leicester Fisheagle]

Given the rapid decrease in the size and number of Flounders in Holes Bay and other areas of the Harbour (understand Neal will be contacting SIFCA following the Club's recent Flounder Comp. over the legality of netting), I talked to a few other anglers including beach, kayak and Winter Flounder League.

 

I understand that there is a facebook campaign to Save Poole Bay Flounders. If anyone could give me a link, I would be greatfull.

 

The issue could also be raised by Charlie A and other local Clubs at the Poole and District Meeting in the New Year. I am sure Dave Samuels, the Secretary, would put it on the agenda for discussion with the SIFCA Officers who attend most meetings, as I feel sure, it is quite a widespread concern across local anglers in general and the more imput we have, the better.

 

Allan.

[alun j.]

Is it a 'bad' year....[ low recruitment ??] ??   Numbers over here in Christchurch are also way down on past form.

 

Alun

[Reel Wizzard]

Given the rapid decrease in the size and number of Flounders in Holes Bay and other areas of the Harbour (understand Neal will be contacting SIFCA following the Club's recent Flounder Comp. over the legality of netting), I talked to a few other anglers including beach, kayak and Winter Flounder League.

I understand that there is a facebook campaign to Save Poole Bay Flounders. If anyone could give me a link, I would be greatfull.

The issue could also be raised by Charlie A and other local Clubs at the Poole and District Meeting in the New Year. I am sure Dave Samuels, the Secretary, would put it on the agenda for discussion with the SIFCA Officers who attend most meetings, as I feel sure, it is quite a widespread concern across local anglers in general and the more imput we have, the better.

Allan.

The Facebook group is called - Protect Poole Harbour Flounders.

[kippercave]

It has been very noticeable how quickly the flounders have disappeared from Holes Bay in the last few years.Recently I have seen two men in Holes  Bay in a small grey/blue flat bottomed boat putting down nets and leaving them.I have also seen them returning to check the nets later.They were clearly not professional fishermen.I have heard that there is generally a lack of flounders in the south west which is being put down to the professionals using them for pot bait.

[kippercave]

Another angle is that we now  have to consider climate change.It is a fact that the seas are becoming warmer and it has been widely

reported  that a number of species of fish are slowly moving north where the feeding grounds are much better due to the fact that the sea water is still a lot cooler the further north you go.As you properly know the cod have multiplied in the northern north sea as their favourite food,the kaplin,a small type of sardine has moved north where their is more plankton.There are now huge shoals of cod off the Norwegian coast including recording breaking fish.Plankton need cold water to exist.Bass are known to be moving north.

We all remember 2015 when thousands of jelly fish appeared in the Channel and Poole Harbour which included squid.They like warm water,perhaps because the waters in the channel have and are becoming warmer.Is the warmer water effecting the flounder.

JUST THOUGHT,I HOPE I AM WRONG!!!!!

[Paul J]

Climate change might have an effect, but its also a favorite excuse for Commercial fisherman to deflect the blame off themselves

 

I'm glad anglers are starting to take ownership ( yes we are major stakeholders along with the general public) and speaking up

 

Poole used to be famous for flounders and we have let it decline while we've had our heads in the sand, i personally think it wont change until we loose all our tackle shops and charters boats go bust- i hope i am wrong.

 

We cant rely on Mackerel or flounders anymore- how sad is that

happy new year

 

PJ

[kippercave]

I suggested above why it could be that the flounders in any numbers have disappeared.The answer could be that it has been over fishing over the years and disturbance of the sea bed in the harbour which I shall come to later.

I started fishing in the harbour with my father in the mid fifties.You could then catch quantities of flounders from a boat all over the harbour from spring until mid winter when they went off to .spawn.Fishing from the harbour shores in the winter was first class,you could guarantee fish.A little known spot for shore fishing in the summer was the Blue Lagoon on the ebb tide.On low tide you

could walk across the mud and pick them up.You were very unlucky if you didn't take a few fish home.

In the winter months you could guarantee flounders from the shore between Sandbanks and Bournemouth pier.The best bait was slipper limper and razorfish.An old boy used to fish most winter days at Canford cliffs with three bean pole rods and three string handlines and catch fish after fish.At Durley Chine on a frosty you would catch quantities of sand dabs.In those days there were not the number of anglers and because of the number of fish there was little thought for conservation, it would always be the same.Pro. fishermen used them as pot bait.The favourite summer food for flounders are baby crabs which they catch in the small channels between the reed beds.There used to be two huge reed beds on the south side of the harbour , one between the south of Brownsea Island and to the east of Furzey Island  and one between Green Island and Road Island.Now long gone, washed away by boats with powerful boat engines which arrived in the early sixties.The demise of the seagull.These reed beds were feeding grounds for the flounders,full of small crabs.PART TWO TO FOLLOW

[kippercave]

PART TWO OF ABOVE

corrections: limpets and Round Island.

 

In the fifties and sixties cockles were picked by hand and to my knowledge there were no clams which later were introduced from USA.There then was no disturbance to the mud flats.However as we all now know the cockles and clams are either dredged or hoovered up by professionals going round in circles in their grey flat bottom boats with no thought for the mud flats which they can only be  destroying and from where the flounders get there food.There seems to be little or no regulations respecting their activities.

My conclusions are ;

That the flounders over the years have been overfished

There feeding grounds have been and are being destroyed

There are no regulations to protect them or their feeding grounds

There are no controls over the professional cocklers or clammers.

There is no control over the trawlers for ragworm.In the long term this cannot be sustained.

I am of the opinion that the harbour as a fishery can only he sustained if it is managed by regulation with a system of permitting and licensing  and that professional fishermen are tightly controlled.

I would suggest that it would a good project for a university to undertake.If nothing is done I can see that there will be a complete

collapse of the fishery in the harbour 

One of the problems today is that the people that can make changes were not around years ago and have nothing to compare the present day with

The inside passage off the western coast of Canada is heavily regulated  by licensing and permitting etc. by rangers 24 hours a

day,this includes periods when no commercial or recreational fishing is permitted.It has been extremely successful and is respected by users due to the fact that the stocks are  kept high and the fish reach the weights they should.

Nobody wants to be over regulated but I can see there is little choice.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!!!!!!!

[gjb]

Time to sell the boat getting to political find a new hobby

[Coddy]

Whilst I have not lived in Dorset for long, nearly 13 years now, I have become more and more active in the marine conservation.

 

You claim that the clam & cockles are not regulated and controlled, I am sorry to disagree with you here as I know that Southern IFCA have spent many hours chasing and catching illegal people collecting shell fish. They have successfully prosecuted and seized boats, nets, pumps etc and the illegal people know that their days are numbered as a number of registered fishermen are now reporting them to the authorities.  There are also loads of by-laws which have to be followed or risk prosecution.

 

Ragworm collection is constantly monitored and under a voluntary code you can only collect 3lb of rag per day as an angler otherwise you require a licence to collect them.

 

I agree there is much more that could be done to protect and control our marine habitat and fish stocks but with the current recourses and limited funds they try to do the best they can.

 

This may be a timely reminder that ANYONE can report any activity that they think is not right to Southern IFCA and they will look into it or respond depending on the nature of report. So it is up to ALL of us to report and put pressure on the authorities to act and not just sit back and complain without doing anything to help to improve the situation.

[Maverick Martin]

Ragworm collection is constantly monitored and under a voluntary code you can only collect 3lb of rag per day as an angler otherwise you require a licence to collect them.

 

 

Dave that is a bit of a contradiction.  If collecting ragworm is limited on a voluntary code agreement then it is not enforceable or is it regulated with a bye law ie not voluntary that you need a licence to collect over 3lb,   Voluntary codes cannot be prosecuted a byelaw can.  Not that I collect bait but it might be important for others to know the limits applied

[Coddy]

Hi Martin

 

Yes the limit for ragworm for personal use only is a voluntary limit and it was agreed that 3lb of rag per person per day is more than enough for anyone. However if collecting ragworm on a commercial basis then there is by-law that is in force.

It was made, in simple terms, that if you are stopped & questioned by the agencies and it is found that you have more than the daily limit they will remove the excess to personal limits. Those who have been caught gathering in gangs will have the bait confiscated and may be reported unless they have the licence to collect.

 

All the above is for digging/pumping bait collection and not bait dragging which is still being reviewed as I understand it.

[Maverick Martin]

Thanks Dave.  

 

As it would be difficult for the agencies to determine who is or not a commercial gatherer and from what you say above I would determine the limit is not voluntary but would be covered in the bye law.  So if stopped with more than 3lb the excess will be taken. Are there any other penalties (over and above removing excess worms) for taking more than your fair share?

 

Not trying to be pedantic but feel it is useful (a must) for those members that do collect bait for themselves and maybe friends that they know the current rules/regulations

[Coddy]

I think in the first instance the agencies will give a friendly warning and issue the leaflet about bait gathering in Poole Harbour.

 

There are a couple of areas which are a no-go area, North Holes Bay is one, below is a summary of the agreement with SIFCA

 

8 January 2016,
Memorandum of Agreement for Bait Digging within Poole Harbour

 

From 1st November to 30th March, bait diggers are asked to avoid key bird sensitive areas of Poole Harbour to help prevent disturbance to overwintering and passage birds of national and international importance.

This seasonal closure is part of a suite of measures introduced under the Memorandum of Agreement for Bait Digging in Poole Harbour, which establishes a joint approach to management of bait digging with the aim of developing and maximising opportunities to protect and improve the marine environment of the inshore waters in the Harbour and to further its sustainable use for the purposes of conservation of biodiversity, recreation, amenity and education.

The area of Poole Harbour is designated as a Special Protection Area (SPA), Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) and a Ramsar site. The site is designated for a number of habitats and species of conservation interest and competent authorities have a responsibility under the Habitats and Species Regulations (2010) to ensure that these habitats and species are protected.

The Agreement sets out a number of provisions to avoid impacts on the Poole Harbour European Marine Site (EMS). In addition to the above seasonal closures for areas defined as particularly sensitive to disturbance, bait digging is prohibited all year round in the area north of the railway bridge in Holes Bay. Diggers are asked to avoid the remainder of Holes Bay between 1st January and 29th February. Bait digging is prohibited within seagrass beds all year round under the Southern Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority byelaw 'Prohibition of gathering (sea fisheries resources) in seagrass beds'.

Diggers are also reminded about the importance of backfilling any holes which are dug as those which are not backfilled can take many weeks to refill naturally (depending on the tide and wave action of a particular area). This can reduce the area available for feeding birds and can pose a safety risk to other users of the Harbour. Diggers are also asked to dig bait sustainably and adhere to all local byelaws and regulations.

The Agreement was developed in 2014 by the Poole Bait Working Group. Administered by the Southern Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority, the Working Group brings together relevant authorities, nature conservation bodies and representatives of the industry with the aim to manage bait collection activity in Poole Harbour. The group hopes that the joint approach to management of bait digging activity will protect the marine environment in Poole Harbour whilst allowing sustainable bait collection to continue.

Sea Angling contributes substantially to the local economy and supports many businesses including those engaged with bait collection. The Agreement will encourage sustainability of the industry which in turn will support and contribute to sea angling across the Southern IFCA District and the wider south coast.

 

A copy of the Agreement can be viewed here

[Maverick Martin]

Thanks Dave

[kippercave]

LASTEST  FLOUNDERS

I have ascertained that two men in a blue canoe have been netting all winter in Holes Bay for flounders for pot baiting.Have even been doing it in the F pontoon channel at Cobbs Quay.THIS IS 100% information.

 

I can supply made in China hand grenades two for the price of one.Small orders only.

[sparky]

LASTEST  FLOUNDERS

I have ascertained that two men in a blue canoe have been netting all winter in Holes Bay for flounders for pot baiting.Have even been doing it in the F pontoon channel at Cobbs Quay.THIS IS 100% information.

 

I can supply made in China hand grenades two for the price of one.Small orders only.

I'll have half a dozen please !!   Ahhh memories 

[lofty]

Is it legal or just anti conservation?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kippercave]

It is not illegal to catch and keep flounders but using a net in the harbour which is anchored to the sea floor and left and later collected is illegal and is enforced by the EA.I presume to stop the illegal catching of. salmon and sea trout.I have some evidence that they are using a fixed engine.I will inform the EA.

[kippercave]

Re Holes Bay flounders and my above reports,for those who are not aware a net which is attached to the seabed and is left in situ is known as a fixed engine.I have now reported the matter to the EA.

[Stuie]

Well done Kipper...

[gjb]

When we had a beach hut at Dunster beach near Minehead I had a license for fixed engine I fished it for 10 years when on my hols but at night 2-3 in the morning if was a long walk out and easy to get lost

but with good fortune had a few fish doing it the way I did you were never going to wipe out the Bristol channel and fished off my mates charter boat Fulmar his name is Steve Pilbrow he's still there

 

graham

[Leicester Fisheagle]

I spoke with Dave, one of the SIFCA Fisheries Officers, at the last Poole Bay and District Monthly Meeting. If there is any evidence of fixed nets being used in Holes Bay or the Harbour they would be interested in having details. They have already had several reports and, as he said, they know all those that are licenced, but it won't do any harm to look in their nets.Those that aren't licenced, can be followed up if they have information.

 

According to Dave, they are responsible for most of the harbour rather than the EA, so it could be worth contacting him at SIFCA.

64 Ashley Road, Poole. BH14 9BN. Tel.01202721373. They are very approachable.

 

Allan.

[Leicester Fisheagle]

Just a quick up date from some of our shore fishing friends. I spoke to Steve Lawrence, who amongst other things, is heavily involved with local Winter Flounder Leagues, especially at Junior Level. Following his recent "Protect Poole Bay Flounders" posting on Facebook, he spent an hour or so with Southern IFCA at their Ashley Road Office in Poole.

 

He was able to present them with a mass of catch returns, nos, dates, venues, lenghts, weights etc.going back years to give credence to the problem of a total collapse, not only in munbers but also size.

 

As we spoke on the phone, he was actually fishing along Holes Bay Road alongside visitors from Southampton and Christchurch who were catching very little. He was expecting the netters to come for their nets around 11pm.

 

It is always worth reporting fixed nets in the harbour. They are probably not always legal.

 

Allan.