Mike Fox Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 On our way back from the Isle of Wight last week, the engine died, shortly after increasing the revs. Feisty fortunately has twin tanks, and separate filters, so I moved from Tank 2 to Tank 1, bled a little air from the fuel line, and the engine fired again quickly. It was a good job we were a few miles offshore in open water, and it was calm. Close quarters or a rough day it might have been a bit dodgy. Back on the pontoon, I discovered jubilee clips that weren't done up fully, and one fuel pipe that wasn't properly aligned, corrected it all, and when I tested the boat while lashed to the pontoon, I could pull high revs under load, with no fuel issues on Tank 2. Took friends out for a day trip yesterday, and going down through the harbour, the engine revs died again, but this time I popped it into neutral, and kept it running. While running, I switched back to Tank 1, and carried on with the day trip with no problems, but I was annoyed and needed to find why. Spent a little time this morning stripping apart the fuel filter from Tank 2, checked all of the seals and seating positions carefully, and tried to work out what had happened. I found a large bit of grit between the glass bowl and it's associated seal, and I'm pretty sure it would have lifted the seal enough to pull in a little air while under load. Nothing else seemed to be wrong. I reassembled with a new filter, and new seals, taking great care all surfaces were clean, then used the lift pump to bleed the air from the system. It took a long time, but finally I got clean air-free diesel. Again, I ran the engine in gear at full load in the marina, and couldn't cause any hiccups. Will need yet another sea trial to prove it, so will try to get out this weekend, and wait until I'm in open waters before trying to induce a failure. I really need to trust this engine in all conditions! Mike PS Have now bought 4 more primary filters, so could potentially do two more changes while out and about if needed PPS If anyone has a diesel engine and can't change a filter at sea, and bleed the air out, can I recommend getting training, and trying it out in the security of a marina? It's not a fun thing to have to do, but it could make a real difference if it's ever really needed! BOB BEER, Duncan F (bathclaret), Rob and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted May 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 Sea trials will be tomorrow. Not keen on a smaller margin for error with today's strong wind warning, and trying to force a failure Might see if the rays and bream are playing... Jim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 Well done Mike. Good advice. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted May 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 Well, it's failed again folks...any suggestions? I've had 3 engine failures on my Yanmar 4JH3 in 3 weeks, every time on Tank 2 (of 2). Tanks have separate primary filters. Both last filled at Cobbs. It's been the first use of Tank 2 since the engine was serviced in October. Failure 1: Running at 2,000 rpm for 2 hours, then increased to 3,000 rpm. Engine died, investigations showed air in system, Changed to Tank 1, bled air out, returned to marina, tightened all jubilee clips, bled Tank 2 filter, and successfully tested at 3,000 rpm in gear in the marina. Failure 2: Was running steadily at 2,750 rpm for 30 minutes, when the revs suddenly died, while using Tank 2. I reduced the revs quickly, and the engine picked up. Unhappy risking a further failure. Changed to Tank 1, returned to marina, replaced Tank 2 filter, and successfully tested at 3,000 rpm in gear in the marina. Failure 3: Checked tank breathers were clear (in case a blockage here was causing partial vacuum). Deliberately tried to prove Tank 2 was good. Ran at 3,000 for 3 minutes before revs died. Again, I reduced revs, and the engine kept running successfully at 2,000 rpm. Changed to Tank 1 and ran for over 10 minutes at 3,000 rpm with no issues, proving common components were all fine. Am running out of ideas. Should I next replace the full filter unit on Tank 2, replace all fuel lines for Tank 2, both or something different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niggle Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 Had similar issues Mike,I would check fuel filter for sludge and if present throw fuel away or clean it.If ok swop it with other tank filter assembly and if problem moves then new unit Mike Fox, Kingfisher 126 and Jim 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 Hi Mike I had the same thing happen to my boat when I first had her, I could go for miles at 6 knots open her up to 10 and alarms sound and shut down to limp mode after changing fuel pipes filters almost every thing possible. The chap who was doing the job found the pickup pipe in the tank was an inch thick with sludge he cleaned it all out and bingo all ok It was all to do with a bug in fuel through lack of use. It only a suggestion but it sounds very similar Kevin Mike Fox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted May 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 I'm now getting nervous. The tank with issues is 200 litres. There's probably 150 left in there. Cleaning the fuel needs lots of containers and filtering, or a professional fuel polishing service. The tank will then probably need cleaning out of any residual sludge before filling up again, and that primary filter will have to be replaced again. I'd be stupid not to do the other tank at the same time - another 200 litres. Has anyone done this, and have any ideas of cost? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Adam has and I will ask him for the contact. Mike Fox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 JV was treated by C P Fuel Polishing cpfuelpolishing.co.uk 07716 851901 enquiries@cpfuelpolishing.co.uk Mike Fox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 This was the problem with mine Jim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted May 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Ewwwww Kev Many thanks Rob and Adam...great to have a safety net. Pickup on Feisty had a light brown slime, no marmite evidenced. Biocide added. Managed to get the revs to change from 3,000 rpm to 2500, while tied to the pontoon. Breather removed, no change, pipes were not compressed, so had to be filter. Removed primary filter from bulkhead and replaced all seals and the filter, reassembling carefully.tested ok on pontoon at 3000 rpm, so sea trials again tomorrow Jim and Stuie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted May 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Sea trials were successful gjb, niggle, Kingfisher 126 and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherman1055 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 If any problems it may be worth replacing the pipeline in case it is delaminating Tony Happyhooker and Mike Fox 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted May 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 I have several metres of replacement pipeline, in case it's needed. It will be a pig of a job, as everything is cable-tied in inaccessible places of course. The short length of pipeline from tank to filter I have replaced, and there was no evidence of delamination. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelJones Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Sorry to be replying to an old post, but it might help someone - I had exactly the same types of issues with our yacht when we first had her. We replaced a cracked glass filter bowl and various clips to ensure that there weren't air leaks, but ultimately had to go down the route of having the fuel polished and the tank professionally cleaned. I could have done it myself, and possibly saved a few pounds, but the mess and potential for cock ups was big enough to make me let someone else do it, even if it was over £500 for a 140l tank plus the cost of an additional hatch cut into the tank to enable them to clean behind the baffles. The key point for me was to find someone who would actually clean the tank properly. Polishing the fuel is fine, but no point if you put it back into a dirty tank. The residue/crud in ours was not horrendous, but with a fine bore outlet that had a 90 degree elbow, it was obviously enough to get stuck and stop the engine. One of our first trips out resulted in a lifeboat tow back into Yarmouth and we are now on first name terms with the Solent SeaStart guys (all three of them). I used SDM Fuel Solutions on the recommendation of a friend. They were more expensive than Carl Payne (CP as mentioned above) but they were able to do the job quicker which got me out of a hole at the time. Another key point is your refuelling practice - use a proper filter to keep water and other contaminents out everytime you refill. It makes the whole process slower, but its better than creating a breeding ground for the bugs. Also use fuel treatment. My thinking on this is that there are two different types of treatment - anti-biocides that kill bugs (eg Marine 16) and others that dissolve any residual water/crud and allow it to be burnt (e.g. Soltron). I use both to be doubly sure, but then we burn a minimal amount of fuel on the yacht so this is affordable. Might be less so if you have a pair of big diesels to feed! Also, check the seal on your deck fittings - any water creeping in there (whether rain or in a seaway) will lead to problems. It's a horrible problem to have and I am hopeful that we've solved it for now at least. Jim and Mike Fox 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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