duncan

Ah - but we are trying to get something to work twice for Kam..... and Dan... I think your rig illustrates the issue quite well Martin - technically many would say a 5kg would be fine for your boat but my view, and I think Jack's, is that a 7.5 makes it all work so much more easily. maybe 10 quid more and a little more weight to handle /recover; might even cost you an extra 0.1p per mile in fuel to - but worth it.

I like the delta which, I think, gives the best of the CQR/Plough dynamics and the bruce's simplicity. Unfortunaetly expensive for wht it is. Spade is excellent for power to weight holding power, and setting. However I have used Bruces exclusively for the last 7 years. For the last 4 because they sit nicely on the bow roller and self stow! I carry a main 10kg and backup 7.5 fully rigged with 15m /8mm chain then 14mm octoplait - all a bit over the top for a 25ft boat but I have never regretted it - and often had cause to really appreciate it.

working towards the end agreement only...... ..........and totally agreeing that longer rode is better..........can we agree that a 10kg anchor is better than a 10kg ball of lead? If we can then it is but a short step to 'by what proportion' and thence to 'the right anchor - but for any given style the bigger the better (for holding)'. re practical v theory I am confident that a 20kg anchor will outperform a 10kg one plus a 10kg pig any day - happy to conceed a 20kg pig and still put money on it! Ah just re read the bit about chain length........and see where I mislead you! Silly me I think - I meant that if, for example, you had 20m of anchor warp attached to 5m of 6mm chain then anchor you should increase the chain to 8mm rather than increasing the chain component to, say, 7m (and 18m warp). I can see how you could have read this as shorter but heavier overall which is definitely not what I meant! Sorry.

not impossible in multiplait...........

4 quick splices and you have another 200m length..............it really is easy in 3 strand nylon.

oh well - got bounced out of edit mode by you post....... covering the 3 specifics you raise - 1. the first is actully your pig argument - increasing to heavier chain at the lower end of the rode would be just the same as adding a small pig. Once sufficient force is applied to the anchored boat it doesn't add to anchoring force which is governed by the anchors holding power and the angle of the pull to the stock. 2. yes increasing scope beyond 6:1 will give marginal improvement to holding but not significantly (still looking for the maths............ may have to do them myself!) 3. primary reason is the relationship between water depth and swell/waves, secondary is the height of the stem head and thirdly the lower overall elasticity in the gear as rodes shorten in shallower water and forthly (in tide) the lower effect of the tide on the catenerary improving the angle of pull. As an extreme example if I anchor in 10 feet with a 1 ft swell and a stem head 4ft above water level I already need 45ft to achieve an effective 3:1 scope............ Havew a good read here

tandeming the anchors will increase the holding power ultimately - and it doesn't need to get up to a force 10 to have the anchor warp/chain in a straight line! - it is the holding power of the anchor (well apart from the warp or a connector actually failing!) that is the critical factor. angle of pull relative to the holding surface - lets assume flat sea bed, therefore relative to the horizontal - will have an effect on the holding power of all anchors but differently. Other factors include the seabed and, in some cases, there are differences in the way particular anchor patterns react to jerk and/or contant pulls. Will go and get some detailed numbers in a minute to illustrate these for the common anchors. increasing your scope beyond 6:1 gives you only a minute improvement in this angle. It is this angle that the various steps we are discussing attempt to improve and therefore improve holding I believe. Pigs (chums, anchorbuddy etc) are all in common use but they are a poor compromise on an increased anchor size - often they are used because they can be handled seperately from the weight of the anchor and chain (and that is basically the only valid reason to use them). This is similar to the 'all chain gives a better hold' argument. Catenerary effects are the primary reason that you can 'get away with' a lower scope in deeper water however anyone who has anchored on an all chain rode in shallower water will quickly become aware of the fact that it becomes almost straight and solid from time to time, in even quite easy conditions. I don't think we are disagreeing about anything - (possibly the effect of adding weight (a pig) on the warp - but even here I don't think we disagree that once the pull is straight from stem to stock it is only the holding power of the anchor and the angle of that pull relative to the stock that counts. Will pull in some material from sources .............

a great subject for a winters day........... firstly 3x and 6x are both good anchoring numbers - but for different things! 3x is the generally accepted optimum working scope for the correct anchor (for the boat and sea bed conditions), in average depths (30/80ft) - once it is set correctly! In practice this means that in a tide or current you will have to carefully get the gear down and set if you are limited to 3x as it may never set. In shallower water you ay need more scope and in deeper you may get away with less. 6x is the scope beyond which there is no (realistic) mechanical advantage in increasing the scope further (there may be an advantage in shallow water with a large swell but that's a completely different issue). Finally you should have approx 1.5 times your boat's length in chain. If you are concerned about the above scopes then increasing the size (not length) of the chain will help - but will not add to the ultimate holding power of your anchor tackle one bit!

Kam, Whilst the statement that you won't need 150m downtiding raises the issue of why you have 200m of anchor line................ ...........there are 2 main solutions you can employ on the reel 1. If you only really ever need 150m then you can pack out the reel with anything as a filler - wool is quite good as it firms up nicely but is light - then put a couple of layers of tape over that to create a false spool base where you want it; add braid 2. As suggested use a backing line. Personally I would use the latter with a quality nylon at least as strong as the braid - still cheap as chips. A good tope in 100ft of water and a tide could well see you using that line - a porgy or thresher definitely will!

2003 - easy................ 2004 - what's a tan?............... 2005 - lets just wait and see..........

oh go on then me too;me, me...........

mine came out Monday after such a depressing Sunday........ just started sorting out tackle to be serviced - can't believe I have 7 penn reels! been locked into the same 3 rod/reel setups since November; in fact none of them have even been apart right down to the link swivel below the boom since then!

"most clement" ......wow! funny how a pretty ray can make the day; eh?

sounds just like the weekend............ find a wreck over slack water and play the conga

yep Charlie - but anchorplait doesn't really mind unless it's being stowed 'with a twist' in which case it's ac/dc.......... Kam, apart from first in/last out there's not a lot you can do. I would however clearly mark off every 20m and probably, given our grounds, put a 'soft divider' at around 80m + chain - even an old towel spread over the remaining coils will keep the regularily used bit from looping down into the unused section.

gave up on that ages ago - cna't catch 'em anyhow so to attempt to do so 'to order' would be a disaster - sausages, chicken kebabs and burgers work just fine on the onboard BBQ; ice cold beer and warm red wine washing it all down..........hell when's summer..........

all wrong - I have it on good authority they have succesfully applied to the EU for flight tickets to avoid UK trawlers and anglers

anchorplait or octoplait shouldn't tangle but at the end of the day you have to retrive and stow the line 'nicely' if you wish it to pay out well too.....

have always done similar and agree it's worth it to keep the family involved. look forward to seeing you around on the water - fishing or BBQing with the family in the summer.

that's what they look like surprising to have the two types mounted so close together but spread wide with long rods you might get away with all 4 working at anchor and just use the tubes to spread the gear from the wake when trolling.

absolutely typical day - great sea conditions; good tides; fantastic bait (thanks PaulJ) and did the fish want to play? at least we all had fish, and managed 3 species between us - but no prizes for guessing which 3.... anyhow Phaeton's getting a well earned rest for a few months after a great couple of months fun. Nice to see Charlie's team making good - beats Chemistry I suppose

Gets my vote too - small eyed. Nice to see the ray but sad not to hear any whiting around.

ron thompson downrigger - 8ft 6in 10-25lb (but it's basically light) with Calcutta 400s / 14lb fireline Wallmart 'special' - 7ft 20-40lb (basically stiff) with Penn 25GLS LD 35lb fireline On this basis I doo seem to have a bit of gear 'spare'!

er Rays for me........... beautiful creatures, can give a good tussle and the odd one on a plate is superb too.

suspect we have all heard it already Coddy.....