Dragging Anchors?

[pirky]

Interesting thread this one.....and the one at WSF.....I can see the argument for both methods of attaching the chain to the anchor to trip .......slack links vs no slack links....Is anything simple ????

 

anyway .. I am erring on Tom's no slack side of the argument......but if I ever have to "cut and run" I will tie off to a buoy or spare fender and hit the MOB button on my plotter to see if it is worth retrieving.... And then at least if it was a good mark I could tie up to it again.......a sort of personal mooring point for as long as it may last !!

 

On that note....is it worth the effort to retrieve ?? I thought it would be in the interest of safety to get rid of the 100 ft of warp wafting around in the currents.....however is there any local diver/service that does this sort of thing ??

 

Dave

[Maverick Martin]

Interesting thread this one.....and the one at WSF.....I can see the argument for both methods of attaching the chain to the anchor to trip .......slack links vs no slack links....Is anything simple ????

 

anyway .. I am erring on Tom's no slack side of the argument......but if I ever have to "cut and run" I will tie off to a buoy or spare fender and hit the MOB button on my plotter to see if it is worth retrieving.... And then at least if it was a good mark I could tie up to it again.......a sort of personal mooring point for as long as it may last !!

 

On that note....is it worth the effort to retrieve ?? I thought it would be in the interest of safety to get rid of the 100 ft of warp wafting around in the currents.....however is there any local diver/service that does this sort of thing ??

 

Dave

You are right in going with Toms method imo

 

Regarding divers we have a few in the club that may be able to oblige. You have to weigh up the cost of the warp chain and anchor against the cost of air fuel and time to decide if its worth the effort. My anchor set up would cost around

[Paul J]

but if I ever have to "cut and run" I will tie off to a buoy or spare fender

 

I have a fender permanently attached to the end of the warp in case i have to loose the lot in a hurry.

 

I just hope if i ever have to do this it's because im chasing a huge fish

 

PJ

[Adam F]

If the anchor is rigged to trip correctly (as Tom suggests) then the cable ties dont usually break in normal use.

 

If yours break EVERYTIME you use this method I'd suggest you either fish very rough ground all the time, or have it rigged slightly wrong.

 

I guess mine go about 30% of the time - unless the anchor is snagged the buoy pull the anchor up and the flukes simply break free.

[Oli]

I'd say mine go 25-30% of the time too so pretty normal I guess. Definitely opt for the tight along the shank method rather than slack though. I'm surprised anyone uses slack? Can't really see the reasoning behind it.

[Jim]

Very interesting thread, this one.

I can't add anything as I've only used my Alderney Ring once. But it's all useful info for us Learners.

Thanks Gents.

 

Jim

[Rob]

 

"No Slack, No Slack, No Slack!!"

 

Can't remember the last time mine broke - I think the last lot of cabel ties slid and opened as they had been on so long I think they degraded \ dried out! And I do use the boat regularly!

 

[charlieannear]

"No Slack, No Slack, No Slack!!"

 

Can't remember the last time mine broke - I think the last lot of cabel ties slid and opened as they had been on so long I think they degraded \ dried out! And I do use the boat regularly!

Yeah, it tripped when I was pulling it out of the anchor locker!

Edited January 7, 2010 by charlieannear

[Rob]

 

YOU THE MAN!!!

[great white]

I think that it should be rigged as Tom suggests no slack, using enough ties so that when it needs breaking out from a jam they break but most of the time they do not.

 

Too many ties and you may not trip it, to few and it will trip every time the boat bounces on a wave.

 

Rob if yours never breaks you ether fish clean ground or the tie is to big.

 

Charlie

[mw]

I like it tight its no good if its slack or am I on the wrong wave length

mark w

[Overrun]

Does no one use the Bridle rig?

 

 

Thought that was a usual set-up for boat anchoring. Use it on my Kayak although most prefer weak link/cable tie. The only downside on the Kayak is you have to paddle uptide of the anchor to trip it, which should not be an issue on a boat (other than tangling in the prop?)

[duncan]

is this one of those 'spot the possible issues' questions?

[AHoy]

I hope this doesnt sound too condesending, but I have noticed with increasing regularity a few members who are experiancing dragging anchor?

 

Whilst in day to day fishing this isnt much of an issue, (simply re-anchor, or wait until it bites) if you were anchored near to a hazard with a dead engine it might be more serious....

I take the approach that the boat has to have a minimum of two anchors, one is the main anchor the other is the fishing/kedge anchor.

 

The "fishing" anchor/rode is a compromise between ease of handling (for relatively frequent moves) and holding capability in deep (30m plus) tidal water. For this I use a Bruce clone anchor, rigged to trip, plus 10m of 8mm chain and 110m of 12mm nylon warp, deployed from the cockpit and made off to a bow cleat, recovered using the Alderney Ring method. I deploy it with the boat stationary or drifting slowly astern, lower it by hand until on the sea bed then drifting astern paying out warp to three times depth and motor astern to set it. Apart from a couple of instances in three years it has always set first time and held. This anchor doubles as my cruising kedge anchor and deep water emergency anchor, with it re-rigged not to trip.

 

The "main" anchor is just that, intended to securely anchor the boat for whatever length of time, maybe in unfavourable conditions and possibly without crew on anchor watch. It is also the emergency brake and as such is always rigged at the bow roller ready to deploy (scenario - engine failure with tide carrying the boat onto the Poole chain ferry ). This anchor is never rigged to trip but may be set with a tripping buoy if the sea bed is likely to foul it. For this I have a premium quality anchor (no cheap clones), last boat had a Delta, current one has a Brittany, along with all chain rode at 4 times depth for the expected max anchoring depth plus spliced on warp for extra scope or depth. In my case it is handled by an electric anchor windlass to save my delicate hands and dodgy back . This set-up is too expensive to risk deploying on a foul sea bed for fishing.

 

Edit: forgot to mention that both anchors with rode can be dumped overboard by releasing the bitter end (with anchor buoy attached for recovery) in the event of needing a quick getaway e.g. collision risk or MOB.

 

Alan.

Edited January 8, 2010 by AHoy

[Coddy]

The "main" anchor is just that, intended to securely anchor the boat for whatever length of time, maybe in unfavourable conditions and possibly without crew on anchor watch. It is also the emergency brake and as such is always rigged at the bow roller ready to deploy (scenario - engine failure with tide carrying the boat onto the Poole chain ferry ). This anchor is never rigged to trip but may be set with a tripping buoy if the sea bed is likely to foul it. For this I have a premium quality anchor (no cheap clones), last boat had a Delta, current one has a Brittany, along with all chain rode at 4 times depth for the expected max anchoring depth plus spliced on warp for extra scope or depth. In my case it is handled by an electric anchor windlass to save my delicate hands and dodgy back . This set-up is too expensive to risk deploying on a foul sea bed for fishing.

 

Edit: forgot to mention that both anchors with rode can be dumped overboard by releasing the bitter end (with anchor buoy attached for recovery) in the event of needing a quick getaway e.g. collision risk or MOB.

 

Alan.

Hi Alan

 

Without sounding picky, I have read a number of people have a windlass, including me, and they all say they can deploy the warp quickly with a recovery buoy attached.

 

Now I would have to admit that I am unable to do that as the warp comes up from the anchor locker, which is accessed from inside the cabin, and has a large chain link attached to prevent the warp, in the unlikly event, of all the warp being released.

I am interested how you can have the warp going through the windlass and having a buoy attached as this would be my ideal set up but can not see how it is done.

 

Any help on how to do this would be great

 

Dave

[AHoy]

Hi Dave,

 

In my case the fishing anchor has a buoy permanently attached to the bitter end and is run so that the whole caboodle can be just dumped over the side once released from the bow cleat and a cockpit cleat (bitter end). Better if possible to feed the line overboard while making a getaway to avoid warp and prop mixing it, but not an option if (suddenly) single-handed.

 

The main anchor does not have a buoy permanently attached because, the same as your arrangement, the bitter end has to pass through the windlass feed from the chain locker. The MF805 differs from your boat in that the anchor/chain locker is accessed from the deck and from there I can cut/untie the bitter end of the warp and release the windlass clutch. This allows the whole rode to pass through the windlass and away once I release the anchor load from the cleat in the anchor locker (the load is not held by the windlass when anchored). Note that there is nothing on the rode that will not go through the windlass. If there is time I can add the buoy (aka large fender) by pulling the unused rode through the windlass once the clutch has been released, attach the buoy, then let everything go. If not done in a controlled manner fingers should be counted after this sort of event!

 

In your case it seems a trip below decks is necessary to free the bitter end first. You also need to replace the "blocking" chain link with a tie-on quick release or cuttable termination. Alternatively it has to be a firemans axe or bolt croppers to hand .

 

Edit: the bow roller must be just that, a roller without top bars otherwise the buoy is not going to squeeeeze through, alternatively you have to tie the buoy on forward of the roller before letting go.

 

Alan.

Edited January 9, 2010 by AHoy

[duncan]

Alan,

 

I think your post(s) illustrate very well the difference between the priorities of the cruiser and the fisherman; although obviously the fisherman still needs the safety element as well as the convenience.

 

I've actually used my main set up (no trip) when fishing for the last 9 years - and have only had to leave it once when it got snagged on the wall of Lobster Rock (Inner patch) one night and I had the luxury of being able to collect the next day. This meant I had to rig the spare for the run in 'just in case'!

 

I have decided to switch over to exactly the set up you describe going forwards, as much because I aim to anchor (and fish) more often as anything else! (small difference is that I have only 15m of 8mm chain spliced to 14mm octoplait on my main but the principles sound!).

 

Having control over the windlass from both the bow and the cockpit does make anchoring (and leaving) in tight spots single handed a doddle but it's little use in 100ft+