Fog Caution!

[Peter]

I,ve been reflecting on the various posts re the fog last Wednesday. I attemted to fish out of Portland vis was about 50 yds when I nosed out - only to completely close in as I left marine entrance. A scary wake up call when I glance to starboard and saw my own wake where I had almost gone round in a circle a victim of the slow GPS refresh others have commented on - so straight back to berth with some difficulty!!

 

Felt a bit of a wimp until I saw the pictures of Duchess aground with her charter crew.

 

I spent a bit of time on the berth setting up routes to all the main areas I fish with quite closely spaced waypoints at critical points to avoid hazards ( the shambles, race the bill anchorage areas etc) so at least if I got caught out in fog I would have a compass bearing to steer to all the way home to some extent getting over refresh rate problem.

If anyone is thinking of updating electronics the external GPS Antenna offered as an extra by Lowrance for the HDS series promises a refresh rate of 5 times per second.

I would also recomend the standard horzon VHF with inbuilt AIS receiver which allows me to see all AIS fitted vessels and course projections through the HDS which at least gives some protection from the big stuff. Don't forget the SEAME device which dramaticlly enhances the radar shadow of small boats

 

Lastly looking back over the too many years I have been fishing( not enouugh of them spent actualy fishing!!) I can recall a number of tragedies where charter boats were hit by other vessels in fog primarily in the years before they were universally fitted with radar etc. It was incredibly frustrating last week sitting by a flat calm sea not being able to get out - but I think we all need to do the risk assessment and work out if it is really worth pushing it in such conditions?

 

You guys that did go out were certainly braver than me assuming it was as bad up your way - but would you do the same again?

 

Peter

[niggle]

"would I go out in fog again".......Hmmmmmmm ....if the fishing was better ....yes..but like you Peter I have 10hds and I'm awaiting the delivery of my broadband radar...which will make things easier.My main worry is collision with another vessel in the fog,that will soon not be a problem also apparently I'll be able to see buoys on the surface.......bonus,but maximum range is 8 miles which I don't see as a problem

Nigel

 

[Graham Nash]

I will not purposely go out in fog again.

 

I found it quite scarey although my plotter did seem to keep me something like on direction. It was the fact I could not see anything till i was on top of it that scared me.

[great white]

Interesting thread Thanks

 

Going out in fog is something I have done but would rather not do again even with the modern toys and Radar.

 

Going in a small boat without plotter and radar I think I would not go regardless of how good the fishing is.

 

That said like everything there are times and places when you get caught by changing weather [usually not forcasted correctly] and knowing how to use the instruments to get you back, is as important as having them onboard.

 

There is no better way than to learn how to use them and then practise with them even when you do not need them.

 

You may not know but if you have a radar fitted you are obliged to keep it in full working order and operate it correctly.

If there was an incident in poor vis with another vessel without radar, the MCA would probably hold you to blame

 

Charlie

[bassncodformeplease]

 

I was out last weds, going out from mudeford was no problem could see

channel bouys no problem and once past just headed a course for a spot

on dolphin bank. To come back i marked a spot just outside the run but

the fog was thick once my spot was reached i slowed down to get my

bearings and nearly ended up on avon beach

 

Can't say it was enjoyable and could easily have been dangerous, we heard

boats but didn't see one in 7 hours, it was a nice feeling to get back to

slipway in one peace.

 

Would i do it again? I'd like to say no but time will tell

 

Mike

[gjb]

I have 2 plotters , radar ,ais transponder whitch shows my boat to others with ais but would not plan to be in bad fog from the start if it happens when out then i hope the toys will bring me home safe

cheers

graham

[Mike Fox]

Strange that around here, people are reluctant to make frequent sound signals in fog. As well as being good seamanship, it is actually required under the collision regulations.

 

When caught out last summer in thick fog off Swanage, it was our sound signals that brought a small solo angling boat to find us, and follow us into Swanage Bay, which we could find easily with plotter and radar....but he couldn't!

 

The worst thing that day was hearing the increasing volume of the sea cat engines, and not being sure where it was as the fog bank hadn't yet reached us!

 

It also makes sense to:

- put lifejackets on (if not already);

- slow down or switch off engine periodically to listen out for other vessels;

- deploy all crew as lookouts;

- navigate at the edge of channels (or just outside of them where possible) to avoid the risk of larger vessels;

- keep speed down to a level where you can avoid collision with another boat travelling towards you (at a similar speed!)...say 4-5 knots;

- if at anchor, prepare to dump the anchor quickly by buoying it, in case something is running you down;

- keep Channel 16 open, and consider letting Coastguard and other nearby vessels know of your situation, course steered, speed, (full power for Coastguard, but 1W is about 1 mile max, and useful if offshore to warn other vessels nearby!);

- make frequent paper records of your position and course steered, in case of electrical failure.

 

As for going out in fog? Carol lost her Great-Grandfather and entire crew in the English Channel when their fishing vessel was run down.

 

We avoid it!

 

Mike

Edited January 4, 2011 by Mike Fox

[Rob]

 

Good points Mike - I think Colin and I did pretty much all of that.

 

A few time he frightened the life out of me with the horn. We woudl reply to any horns that we heard and try to keep sounding every minute.

 

I kept a look out over the cabin by standing on a cool box.

 

With the advantage of lovely quite Honda 4-strokes it was easy to hear other craft.

 

Speed was down to 5 knots.

 

We kept to the edge of the channels and hopped from marker to marker.

 

We had a knife ready on the anchor rope just in case.

 

Possibly would think twice if going again - though I expect the time of year mean't that the boat traffic was kept to a minimum. A sea fog rollling in on a sumers day woudl be a different story!

 

Rob

[Paul D]

Had the sea fog roll in when fishing on the Clan whilst buddying "That Dam Boat" and it was most worrying.

We saw a yacht come through the fog with a lookout on the stern and they were well close before coming into visibility.

 

Would I do it again. If it was already foggy then no way, but often it comes form nowhere.

 

 

[djredrupp]

After being caught in the fog the other day for the cod comp, I dont understand why people end up going round in circles?!

 

Surely you know the direction you were heading / want to head, and use a compass to do so?

 

For example, leaving the Needles, heading on a bearing of 270, you would avoid any problems, such as the shingles, bridge (or the needles themselves if it was really dense fog! ), once traveling on this bearing for a few seconds, gps has no issue showing your direction, and then you can commence following that home as usual?

 

Or am I missing something here...

 

 

Dan

[Adam F]

Some good posts and thoughts. Mike's especially.

 

Fog doesnt worry me too much - it aint nice but provided your set up and confident and safe then it neednt ruin the day.

 

In a small boat you have the MK1 eyeball, MK11 ear drum and speed and manouvribility to help, bigger boats might not see you but you can hear and see then easier as your not in an enclosed wheelhouse.

 

I once came 25 miles back from the ripps in a pea souper with AJ... we just took it slow, kept a good look out and regular compass and plotter bearings.

 

In a bigger boat we loose the above... but gain with the extra toys eg. radar - to be honest though I'm not sure what Id rather have - toys are great but often you cant beat the human senses of sight and sound.

 

Ive probably had more fog in the spring summer than winter too!

[Neal]

I definately will not go out again in the conditions that we had last wednesday.

 

It isn't worth it!

 

I may consider myself relatively safe - but it is the unexpected that will catch you out.

 

I did not see or hear Coutance until she was right on top of me - not an experience I wish to repeat. I was not aware of any fog horns sounding - other than the Sandbanks Ferry.

 

Neal

[biggcol]

I would add also make sure you have backup equipment. As we proved we needed it brand new radar went down, brand new horn went down. I have on board 2 steering compass' and a hand held compass, electric horn, a manual horn (lung power, being a trombone player I can out blow most electric horns ) 2 plotters, 2 fishfinders.

 

Mind you I also learnt to keep things more tidy as I couldn't find the manual horn straight away when needed!!

 

So I say back up and back up again.

 

I was also lucky to have a very good crew who did all the right things at the right times. Thanks Rob gold star for you.

 

As for going out hmmmm will have to wait and see. Maybe not.

 

 

 

Colin

 

 

P.s forgot to say I also have an echo max radar reflector which goes up on the radar mast under the radar but nice and high, which Rob had to remind me to hoist. another gold star for that man

Edited January 5, 2011 by biggcol

[wilful]

Some very sensible comments !

I am an ex master mariner, initially trained with P&O cruises then specialised in dynamic positioning vessels in the oil industry. Our biggest problem with small boats was the inability of radar (3cm or 10cm) to pick up small craft made of wood or tupperware. The existence of an engine which is made of metal does have a marginal effect, but it is just that and can easily be lost in clutter.

 

The height of the radar mast on a ship has a bearing on its efficiency but cannot get over the issue of "black spots" or shadows caused by masts, containers or superstructure, all of which are common problems on the modern ship which has accomodation 3/4 aft.........................the bow alone throws a large blind spot.

 

The point of this background is, we are practically invisible to radar in fog due to our lack of mass and therefore lack of radar reflecting surface and the high absorbancy of our hulls. By the time a large vessel is close enough to pick us up on radar we may be inside a shadow or blackspot on the screen ( Liverpool Bay, an old container ship I was 2nd officer on had a complete blackspot on the radar of 4 degrees either side of the bow for about 4 miles when we carries full height containers on board!).

 

Sound signals in fog are difficult to make unless you have an automatic function on the horn and are in any event of little value to a large ship due to engine noise and closed bridge wing doors! but nonetheless SHOULD be sounded in fog, They certainly assist those of us in smaller boats.

 

Given that we can't change the reflective surface of our hulls, nor their size the problem would appear to be insurmountable, but in fact is relatively cheap and easy to rectify.

 

Radar reflectors have got more effective since the days of a galv pail up a mast and are inexpensive. If you haven't got one and you are in a "non metallic" boat, then assume you are invisible!

 

I have a plotter with excellent refresh, a corrected compass And a reflector, yet of all the things I could mention that were hazardous at sea, fog scares the hell out of me the most.

 

Give yourself a chance and fit a good reflector to cover getting caught in fog at sea, and if you haven't got a radar and the training to use it properly in fog, simply don't chance it and stay in port.

 

No big cod is worth risking the lives of your crew and yourself, though as an angler for 40 plus years I sympathise with that urge to get in amongst them when it's calm!

 

Gordon

[Jim]

I must try my Rod Holders on someone's Radar.

If they don't light up like a christmas tree, I'll buy a reflector.

 

I had fog close in on us when anchored at Hengistbury.

It only lasted about 20 minutes, but I found it Scary & Disorienting.

 

We did hit fog on Wight Magic, But Dave's got " more gadgets than Piplers's. "

That was very reassuring to be able to " See in the fog "

 

 

 

Jim

[Rob]

 

This was a good discussion with a summary of result from Gaffa:

 

http://www.pbsbac.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=5802&

 

Rob

[great white]

As I said earlier a good thread

 

 

with the odd tangential comment [Thanks Fred ]

 

 

The other bit of kit that can help is the echo sounder, if you are running towards a beach at slow speed it may well tell you if you are where you think you are.

 

if going down a channel

zig zag slowly to stay close to the deep water in or around the centre.

as it shallows alter course 90degrees towards deeper water, [if you alter course but the sounder shows it getting shallow you probably went the wrong way]

it should get deeper then shallow before you repeat the process.

 

actually this sounds easier than it is, but it works

 

Charlie

[Peter]

I read a report in one of the boating magazines a couple of years back comparing the effectiveness of radar reflectors and the genral conclusion was that they are largely ineffective even the more expensive ones - the only device I've seen good reviews for is the Sea Me radar enhancer reconditoned units available for circa

Edited January 5, 2011 by Peter

[duncan]

couple of things that strike me here -

 

1. I agree with Dan's observation - I remain puzzled regarding this issue.

2. Whilst large ships have problems spotting small boats (like us) the good news is that small boats can definitely spot each other - and the big ones! Equally fog and flat seas tend to go together. Small boats fog and a big sea definitely don't mix!

3. I'm also confused about how using an active GPS antennae such as the latest Lowrance one is going to help what I had understood was a plotter screen refresh rate issue (if that isn't the problem then switching to N up won't make any difference!). This assumes the existing engine can be bypassed and that the data bus isn't a problem when linking up multiple systems etc etc.

 

Anyway - I hope you all stay safe.

[Paul J]

being a trombone player

 

Got me thinking Colin how nice it would be if you could play us a tune next time we are all rafted up, also what a great back fog horn .

 

I've never experienced the slow update gps issues before last week, it was quite concerning relying on a piece of kit that wasn't functioning properly.

I wont be doing it again by choice and thanks to the input here i'll be even better prepared if i get stuck in it again

 

PJ

[Adam F]

One tip to ensure your GPS is running at top speed is to keep the trail logs to a minimum, on most GPS units storing the track / trail logs uses memory and like a computer this can cause the unit (especially the older ones) to run slow.

 

Another point - plenty of us fish at night, apart from the lack of sight (to see naviagtion lights etc) there isnt a big difference between fog and darkness, infact once you get out of the hardbour not much is light up anyway (thinking of pot bouysm groynes and headlands etc)

[Rob]

At night Adam you can see the lights of other craft and navigational markers and Bramble Bush Bay! (we codul hear her but not see her until we were upon her!!!)

 

I think the issues with keeping a straight course was underestimating how much focus and concentration that would need. Boats dont handle well at 5knts in clear conditions and need constant correction - if you are doing this in fog whilst wiping the inside of the windows - putting you gloves on etc it is challenging - a good crew doing everything else allows the driver to focus and that is what is needed!

 

Rob

[Graham Nash]

Exactly Rob; My plotter seemed to be doing its job very well, it was ME that was not doing MY job so well.

 

When I looked back at my trail, it was like lots of quite tight S bends!!!

 

I could not beleive how disorientating the fog along with such a slow speed could be. The fact that we "should" be passing Aunt Bessie by now but were actually still in the lee of Rockley didnt help at all.

 

 

[great white]

Exactly Rob; My plotter seemed to be doing its job very well, it was ME that was not doing MY job so well.

 

When I looked back at my trail, it was like lots of quite tight S bends!!!

 

I could not beleive how disorientating the fog along with such a slow speed could be. The fact that we "should" be passing Aunt Bessie by now but were actually still in the lee of Rockley didnt help at all.

I think this hits the problem square on the head

 

The kits working OK, its the mental speed of the user thats sometimes slow, when instead of just using it for referance he has to use it almost exclusivly.

 

try going into clear water, get the crew to be safety lookout then just drive looking at instruments without looking up from them.

 

I bet your track and wash are not straight

[Maverick Martin]

Definitely the problem here is speed. Use your kit and do what charlie says at over 10 knots and no (or very little) problem keeping a reasonable track. Do the same at 4 or 5 knots with no reference points its a whole different ball game, doable but a lot harder. The only way to overcome these problems is practice and use the compass

 

BTW I struggled getting out and into the Rockley channel, even modern plotters take an amount of time to catch up and in a confined channel with little room for detour it makes life shall we say interesting

 

Martin