Sinbad Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 last trip out and with no electrics has made me think about how cheaply I can prevent the same thing happening again. 1. I've got one of those portable gel jumper starters - only need to remember to charge it and take it with you (more luggage) 2. start the engine using the flywheel Never fancied doing this, until needed - but had a practice in the marina last weekend and the engine started surprisingly easily. 1. use the lanyard and plastic handle supplied with the tool roll - it looks cheap, but does the job. 2. Remove top cowl of engine (clips) 3. unscrew two M10 bolts holding plastic shroud over engine 4. shroud simply unclips 5. turn on key electrics to middle position (i.e instruments on) 6. turn on battery isolator switch (if fitted) 7. wind rope arround pulley, take up initial compression, re-wind and pull firmly. I was amazed how slowly I had to pull the rope to get her started - it wasnt like the speed of a petrol lawnmover - which also means the rope dis-engages easily rather than being whipped round by the flywheel. 8. Fitting flywheel shroud and cowl is pretty simple providing you take obvious precautions with fingers and moving belts, and I suppose you are not being slammed arround by the waves. I'd recommend others to go ahead and have a few practices, so its second nature if it happens to you. Regards Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Paul - was that from cold or did you warm her up first (cheating)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Yesterday I would have wished to have been able to do that with an inboard diesel!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Well done Paul A very worthwhile excercise. and good skill to practise in a shelterd berth when not rushed I know it would make a differance if tried for the first start of the day, but it is possible. For a start like at the car park just prior to Christmas it would be fine. and I do not think you have to put on all the covers if it was choppy. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Another really useful post Paul. I've been meaning to try this but have never got round to it. one plus with the etec is you don't need battery power at all - i really need to test this Cheers PJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinbad Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) Yep - I cheated - the engine was a bit warm.... but with the water temp only 1.5 degree in the marina, she did struggle to idle on the initial warm up with the elctric start and I had the low oil pressure light up a few times. I would also have thought it wouldnt be that bad starting after a days fishing, as the engine tends to turn over alot easier on the electric start and warms up much faster even aftr being off for 6 hours or so. Yams seem to cough and splutter a bit when the water gets really cold (ref AlunJ's starts in mudeford - where he usually breaks the ice putting the boat in) I've often wondered about putting the covers back on, as there's nothing in the manual about doing this before setting off. PJ - when you mean without the battery, presumably you still need something connected to the charging circuit, or the rectifier will fry. re the low oil pressure - is this a feature of the cold start ? oil level wasnt at maximum - maybe a sign of impending maintenance.... Paul Edited January 5, 2009 by Sinbad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinbad Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Oh yes, nearly forgot (cant sleep) Surounded by boats as I was when we needed assistance - with no power for the VHF. Options were limited unless I wanted to bring out the helicopter and every floating rescue system....which I thought initially unnecessary in order of effectiveness in getting a response from a passing boat 1. Hoist international signals (flags) - hmm ! 2.Shout and wave arms 3. Use Mouthpiece foghorn (the canister ones are always flat when you need them) 4. Flashlight/ lantern (preferrably wind up) 5. Mobile phone - do you know the number of anyone who is out (perhaps buddies going afloat ought to swap numbers as a back up) 6. Orange smoke flare (less chance of being spotted by well meaning walkers on cliff tops than the parachute red ones). Into the dark these options are reduced.then its a case of sit tight and wait for shore action via the CG66 scheme if they can locate your position. 7. dry spare clothing or towel or space blanket 8. Extra Food / bottle of water (fruitcake lasts years / sealed bottled water) I must admit the experience has spooked me a bit - having been out plenty of times on my own, and coming back in the dark, often without seeing another boat or vessel all day. At the worst, you would just have to sit it out till daylight- but it would be pretty miserable if you had run out of bait (i.e no congering) or food or battery power. Simple but effective items All of the above cost very little to organise, without the expense of yet more safety equipment (for the safety conscious even a pinpoint or red flare is only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHoy Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Paul, A fully charged hand held VHF is the easiest option for calling up support. I always keep one in my grab bag along with a spare battery pack. Alan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 I'd agree Alan. Our main VHF is kaput at the moment, and my little handheld has been sat there never used for 5 years - on Sunday it proved invaluable.... Who hasnt got one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Paul 1 old fashioned but very efficient tool is the whistle, They can be heard from a long distance over water. Adam your hand held VHF sounded very clear on Sunday, obviously restricted in range but much better than no VHF, I ought to carry one onboard and will now get one. I also have coastguard and Poole Harbour Commissioners numbers set in my mobile, but I will admit that it was done as a result of work not me being safety conscious and organised. PHC office 01202 440233 Marine Police 01202 222222 Portland Coastguard 01305 760439 As you say on bigger boats we have the space to carry plenty of gear, we have spare food in the way of boil in a bag rations [Thanks Sam] and tins, some bottled water. Clothing in the way of overalls and spare waterproofs [i think I will add some warmer gear as well this week] It does make you think, Its already been over a year since Alfresco had her safety check. Lets all stay safe Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 What a good Post ! My battery let me down in the flounder comp. I had never started my E Tec without electric. Water and light were dissappearing fast __ Scary. Luckilly I got help. Thanks again lads. I need to sort out some back up gear too. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinbad Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Yep - handheld VHF is one solution- it is on the wants list. Thanks Charlie - useful numbers for a rainy day. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander99 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Hi Guys First trip out last year I started engine before towing to launch site and it started easily. Towed to launch site and once again engine started easily. Went a few miles anchored up fished for about four hours.When I tried to start engine battery was completely dead. I have a e-tech 75 and did manage to start it with cord around flywheel but I must stress that it was not easy and definitely needs practice in quite waters. Since then I also have bought a jump starter pack I take it every time and hope that I do not need it. One thing that i learnt from this is that you cannot leave a battery for several months in winter without at least trickle charging it . I expect that most of you all know this but I did not . I have now bought a solar trickle charger from Maplins for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlieannear Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I was wondering about that this morning. It got down to -8.3 on my patio where I keep my boat. Hope it hasn't killed the batteries or anything else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinbad Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Mike These solar chargers are very good for this type of application, an auto electrician friend of mine fitted about 50 of these to the roofs of wessex waters vehicles, as they were suffering from weeks without use, and then trying to start them in emergency call outs. However, the phenomenon of good batttery, fish for a few hours and then nothing left, must be the instrument drain, with maybe the charging rate from the engine not keeping up with the drain on the run out to the mark. Best system is a twin battery set up with a split charger, so that the spare is charged, or a changeover switch to ensure that when you are sitting at anchor, your main battery is not being drained. I was watching the voltage literally run off the battery as soon as the engine stopped charging. I dont know whether a leisure battery is the best animal for starting loads, or whether a standard car battery kept only for starting would recover quicker. Bob F would probably know?????? Regards Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander99 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Hi Paul What the marine engineer told me was that there must have been just enough charge to start the engine twice but even with the battery getting charged on the run out because of the condition of the battery it could not hold the charge. Yes I did leave the instruments on for a while but this is never usually a problem. The battery was tested and it had dead cells. Because the leisure battery that I use is easily enough to cope with the way I use it he suggested a jump pack instead. His reasons were the jump pack took the place of a second battery if needed giving you plenty of juice to start engine to get home, also being charged at home it overcomes any possible charging problem on boat which could affect battery condition even with two batteries. thanks for your comments interesting about the 50 or so panels that your friend fitted,they must do the job then. Thanks for the help and advice Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Paul - you need both types if you are to have a split system. Leisure battery is designed to have a small drain over a long period - ie - run electronics at anchor. Car battery - this is a cranking battery and what you will use to start the engine, designed for very short and high drain\amp applications. Then once started on the car battery (switch position 1) then the switch put in position 1+2 to charge both when under way. Then when at anchor switch poition 2 is used. I am sure a relay automatic switching system is possible but the 1, 2, 1+2, 0 position switch is cheaper! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I have always used 2 leisure batteries, 80 amps ea. on Maverick and 110-amp ea. on AWOL. The only problems ever encountered on both boats were when the batteries have been past there best. An average life for a battery in the marine environment is 3-4 years max. Indeed I have heard of boat owners that change their bats every two years as a matter of course. That maybe a little overkill but if at all in doubt change them both. One sick battery will kill the other for sure. Battery packs are brilliant as I found out on our trip with WSF to Weymouth this year. Our alternator gave up the ghost leaving us with two flat bats. Connected a 90amp boost pack and left for a minute or two then started a 3.1 litre diesel no probs. Had to shout over the radio for a loan of that piece of equipment. Not anymore as we now have one along with 2 new batteries Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Conversely, I have always used 2 bog standard car batteries and although a "leisure" battery does allow a slow drain and is designed for slower drain deeper discharge etc. a car battery still works fine for our purposes.. If your boat has a fridge . TV etc. then yes a leisure battery makes sense for powering these. Whereas if all you have is a bait pump and VHF plus some nav lights, I have had no issues. ( apart from having to replace one which died on me - 1 battery in 4 years. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petesnr Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 I have 3 batteries. 2 charge off the engine and the third is topped up by a solar panel and runs the electronics with the option of switching in to the other 2 if the solar panel has failed to keep it up. The batteries are all Halfords with the 3rd battery being a leisure battery--no problems in last 3 years but have replaced batteries regularly in the past. I switch off sounder and plotter at anchor and use handheld for transmitting. Having said all that I bet the next time I go out they'll all be flat.........! Pete Also take handheld gps with many of my waypoints in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinbad Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 After an aborted trip out today - I wasnt getting any charge into the battery, I've contacted an engineer to check the regulator /charging circuit. It would have been a different matter on a warm summers day, but I didnt fancy getting stuck out in the bay in minus degrees - I didnt see another vessel outside the harbour either, and the ebb was kicking up alot of breaking surf in the looe channel as well as hook sands. Twas nice in the harbour though - and sunny... Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady jane Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 from memory i think that when i fitted a change over switch the paperwork said that you should never change the switch position with the engine running. andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 from memory i think that when i fitted a change over switch the paperwork said that you should never change the switch position with the engine running. andy Mine says "Don't switch through the OFF position with the engine running". It's ok to switch from 1 to Both to 2, as it "makes before breaks", so is never open circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Brian, That is spot on. If you move the switch through the "OFF" position with engine running then this is what can damage/destroy the rectifier. If a current is flowing and it is immediately interrupted then due to inductance the voltage will soar and a voltage "spike" occurs - this can/will destroy the diodes within the rectifier pack. However, I am still pondering how a rectifier/regulator can be destroyed when running with no battery connected - I am presuming same issue if running with radio / lights connected and these are suddenly tuned off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 I use an Optimate during the winter months and my boat battery is still good after 4 years, I picked it up second hand for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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